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Visual GDL editor [again]

Anonymous
Not applicable
I’ve just finished manufacturer’s object library for ARCHICAD and Revit. When I was asked to do this job hourly, I had to estimate three times the time for ARCHICAD GDL programming than I had to for the same Revit family. Revit family editor lets me do all the BIM object creation tasks at least three times as fast, hence the difference.

I think the time has come to finally create a visual GDL editor to supplement all the other great features of ARCHICAD.

Today, world’s BIM software acceptance hinges on BIM object availability, and no matter the refined parametric ARCHICAD libraries we have now, they are no match for countless manufacturers’ objects that need to be created daily to represent all the BIM building components. Without proper GDL visual editor ARCHICAD is loosing the battle and people choose BIM applications with better BIM object support.

I can’t think of any feature for AC23 and beyond that may have as high growth impact potential for ARCHICAD franchise than easy to use Visual GDL editor.
88 REPLIES 88
Jim Allen
Expert
leceta wrote:
On AI and coding literacy:
"State of the art machine intelligence today is usually provided as libraries of code, written by large-scale influential companies, (for example Google’s TensorFlow or Facebook’s Pytorch) structured by professional engineers such that the involved architectonics and procedures conform and reinforce the engineering problem-solving mindset. Anyone not able or willing to adhere to this mode of operation—for example architecture, which is neither a discipline, nor it is strictly about problem solving—is kept at a safe distance, and offered tools and tutorials. The knowledge about a computational concept, for example a much-hyped GAN, is offered to the peers as a complex technical paper, and to the rest, simply as a library of code to be played with. If an architect, willing to reinvent her field in today’s novel and significant technological context wishes to acquire the necessary literacy to navigate the space where the knowledge is created and negotiated, she faces considerable difficulties. Prerequisites to enter the field are the same as for future engineers, along with pedagogic principles. If, on the other hand, we are unwilling to pursue this literacy, we are once again in a situation to simply accept the tools and let them write our legacy. However, this time, the shortcut that we would be taking might have far greater consequences than before. It could, in fact, do a great honour to computer science by allowing it to turn a three-thousand-year-old legacy of architecture into one of its particular specialisations."
Nikola Marinçic
I'm sorry, the words are in English, and they are all in the right order, but I'm struggling to understand this.
The bits that I do understand I think are completely wrong.

The only people who tell us that AI will replace architects, are those who don't actually properly understand what we really do.
Archicad 27 UKI | OS X 12.7.1 Monterey
Jim Allen
Expert
I had a quick play with how this might work. I mocked up an interface proposal, which I have attached below. It is based on the principle of making individual components using just the slab tool. It allows quite a lot of flexibility, but anything that is more three-dimensional can be modelled with the morph tool and loaded.

It keeps things simple.

There is not too much wrong with the current GDL editor. It's arguably too complex, but the key issue is that you have to script geometry creation as opposed to drawing it. This is the single biggest obstacle to making new parametric objects.

The idea is that you draw named geometrical elements, configure the materials, fill, line types and colours etc, and then you can change the scale, rotation and location of these relative to one another, and you can use the parameters in one element to drive those in another.

It also separates the specific elements of the Object Properties box, so they can be configured in isolation.
There are lots of things that Objects can include, and configuring these in discrete dialogs is not a bad approach.

You will notice that the Appearance in 2D and 3D is based on changing to the specific view in the preview box, and then clicking an edit button, so the preview acts as the way of configuring the views.

This is intended to be a starting point for discussion, not a fully-formed proposal.

Comments are encouraged!
Archicad 27 UKI | OS X 12.7.1 Monterey
leceta
Expert
I'm sorry, the words are in English, and they are all in the right order, but I'm struggling to understand this.
The bits that I do understand I think are completely wrong.
Understanding just the bits is not enough. This (could) lead you to decontextualize the words.

In my understanding, what the author wants to say is that architects using tools developed by people from other disciplines (software engineers) are ( arguably) limiting their "design space" to foraneous mindsets. So the interest of having architects literate in coding.

BTW, one of the lemmas of Graphisoft has been that ArchiCAD is "designed by architects for architects"
TMA_80
Enthusiast
Sorry to ask this, but regarding the visual interface, Is "the library part maker", a potentiel take ( vs the family editor in Revit)?
Or, is the nodal approach: Marionnette, Grasshopper, Dynamo. the real next step and take?

Maybe, both...
AC12_20 |Win10_64bit|
mikas
Expert
I think that if there ever was an easy way to implement a general visual gdl-editor, it would have been done already. By Graphisoft itself, or by a third party developer. GDL, it’s an easy to comprehend language. I by myself have done a couple of objects from the ground up. A coordinate tool, and a water slide object. The latter one is still in use today, and it works just like it is intended to. Both of them were scripted as of late 90’s if I remember it right.

For me it’s been a while though with scripting, and it’s more complicated today than it was a couple of decades ago, I think. I would love a visual gdl editor. It would be magical for me and for everybody who are here today working with ArchiCAD.

Having done a couple of gdl-objects myself, I don’t think it’s an easy job to make and realize that kind of an editor. There are much too many variables in it.

I believe strongly in grasshopper connection myself. It’s visual enough, and mathematically more powerful and versatile than what gdl in itself is. GDL, as old as it is, does fulfill it’s purpose unbelievably well still today - as a geometry engine. I am amazed what they did back then at ´80s in GS Hungary laboratories. Great Job, thank you.

And then were are these other languages too to interact with ArchiCAD, like Python, which I am not familiar with, unfortunately.
AC25, Rhino6/7+Grasshopper, TwinMotionMac Pro 6,1 E5-1650v2-3,5GHz/128GB/eGPU:6800XT/11.6.5 • HP Z4/Xeon W-2195/256GB/RX6800XT/W10ProWS
Podolsky
Ace
In time of ArchiCAD 5 existed program called "Visual GDL" - that had possibility to model shapes with the mouse and write GDL scripts too. But it never came out from beta stage. Probably that time computers gave more limitations for complicated 3D tasks, or was not enough time to develop this software or initial algorithms were wrong.

As about current stage, I think GDL is absolutely perfect tool for creating cool libraries. It has a lot of possibilities, and it's sad that not so many people are able to use full capacities of it. Yes, it's quite complicated for architects and it's necessary to sit with language at least 2 years before getting great results.

Now, with PARAM-O version the problem of creating quick library parts looks like solved for whom does not like scripting.
As about users, who like GDL scripting, would be very good present as update of GDL editor interface. It's just outdated. Several things can be done there - from colour coding script to ability to "draw" 3D and 2D shapes, when program will generate the script, that late can be altered by user.
So, back to 90-ies to Visual GDL project!
vdentello
Advocate
Well, Param-o has its highlights, but i still believe GDL editor could benefit from a little update. I always say that here.
Archicad User Since 2013
GDL Developer
Experimenting with API
from Brazil
David Collins
Advocate
27 years ago (!) Visual GDL was definitely a good start, let’s not get too nostalgic. It had its issues:
• Crashes were frequent and final.
• It scripted objects in binary. Parametric variables were not possible.
• The interface was clunky and baffling, as was the documentation.

We have a pretty decent Visual GDL editor already built into ArchiCAD: the object editor combined with drag-and-drop from ArchiCAD proper. Any Archicad element can be dropped into the object editor and it will write out the script for you. You can then tweak that script to accomplish pretty much anything you want.

Okay, maybe it’s not that simple, especially for someone who refuses to learn even the most basic GDL, but I think expanding the drag-and-drop interface would be a more promising approach to Visual GDL than the direction PARAM-O is taking.

What if you could take a simple 2d polygon drawn in ArchiCAD, drop it into the object editor and a menu would walk you through a dialog that converted it to any kind of 3d object you wanted ?
David Collins

Win10 64bit Intel i7 6700 3.40 Ghz, 32 Gb RAM, GeForce RTX 3070
AC 27.0 (4001 INT FULL)
Anonymous
Not applicable
27 Years!

David wrote:
What if you could take a simple 2d polygon drawn in ArchiCAD, drop it into the object editor and a menu would walk you through a dialog that converted it to any kind of 3d object you wanted ?
I think this approach could be more productive than Param-o. The thing is, AFAIK, Param-o is more an assembly tool than a modeling one. Your suggestion along with the introduction of new GDL commands like a proposed StretchPlane/Poly, or even some sort of Stretch Modifiers for the GDL editor, could be more useful.
Cheers,
DGSketcher
Legend
I still think a Block / Module solution is needed that would also address many users need to make one off or limited use models. And then there's Library Part Maker and If something is going to be used regularly & needs to be parametric then there's GDL or Param-O.
Apple iMac Intel i9 / macOS Sonoma / AC27UKI (most recent builds.. if they work)