Modules (Archicad), Groups, (Archicad & Sketchup) and Components (Sketchup)

4hotshoes
Advisor

I just completed a project using hotlinked modules for an apartment building in Archicad. I have had a good experience in setting up and managing the modules. But I also have experience working with Sketchup. Both AC and SU use Groups to help select multiple objects.

 

Archicad uses external files for modules and those modules can be repeated in a host file.

 

Archicad uses groups and you can group several groups into groups, but you cannot access nested groups as you can in Sketchup. I wish we could.

 

Sketchup can turn its groups into components. These components are somewhat like Archicad modules or Autocad blocks. However, in Sketchup components can have nested components and groups that can easily be edited in any instance and any nesting level. If any part of the nested component is modified all instances in the model file are also updated. Components are not like modules as they are not external files. Another nice thing about Components is that they can be animated by scripting and interactivity. In Sketchup I can double click any instance of a component and edit it or keep double clicking deeper into the component to edit. It is really easy to use and manage.

 

I wish that Archicad had Components to function as they do in Sketchup. The Modules have their place, as do library parts. But Components would fill a gap of easier functionality that is missing. (And while you are at it, update the Morph tool to function like Sketchup modeling. Morphs are too clumsy and difficult to use)

 

Groups in Archicad are not that helpful and nesting groups is nearly useless since the nesting is not accessible.

 

My wish is that Groups in AC would be improved and that named components as in Sketchup would also be incorporated. Such components could do much of what modules try to do only better, while allowing to edit the component in the model. 

 

If you know what I am talking about, feel free to add some clarity to this. I speak too briefly here to be helpful to explain this wish.

19 Comments
Stefan Videnov
Booster

Hi everyone,

I know this has been posted before, but honestly working on modules in place is of utmost importance. 
Even if it's implemented not exactly 'in place', but it is in the same file (different window?) it is still going to be many times easier to coordinate than the sepparate file system that we have now. 

 

PLEASE Graphisoft, this is going to be a game changer, not only for advanced users, but for everyone as it will definitely stop people from shying away from modules! 

Kind regards,
Stefan

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator

@Stefan Videnov wrote:


Even if it's implemented not exactly 'in place', but it is in the same file (different window?) it is still going to be many times easier to coordinate than the separate file system that we have now. 


Most of us agree with this long-standing wish.  But, I just want to make sure you realize that modules do NOT have to come from a separate file.  Self-linking has always been possible and the easiest way to handle some situations.  Further, self-linked modules never have issues with Attribute coordination, the biggest problem with external hotlinks.

 

Some self-linking hotlinks can be handled without any special view settings.  For example, a structure where certain floors/stories are clones of another story can simply hotlink the desired story onto the target story.

 

Other module content that is placed randomly throughout the project but which should be identical in all places - can be placed on its own story.  Many of us create these as negative stories - below the foundation, and then change the view settings for all sections / elevations / 3D to ignore these hidden stories.   Then you can edit the module on that special sub-story and the hotlinks to it will update throughout the project.  In choosing to use this approach, it makes sense that the module is reasonably unique to the current project.   Modules that you would re-use across lots of projects probably are best placed in their own files.

 

Finally, do not forget Publisher, which can publish MOD files from a project.  Thus, you can have modules in sub-stories that are linked into the current project directly... but for which a Publisher set will also generate MOD files to be used in other projects...for as many modules as you create in the file.

 

Placed-module update is not automatic with self-linked hotlinks, so you still need to go to Hotlink Module Manager after changing your sub-story content and click Update to update all placed instances... or right-click a placed module and click Hotlink Module > Update Module and all related Hotlinks as seen in this screenshot:

 

Screen Shot 2023-01-10 at 10.46.58 AM.jpg

 

PS One more caveat besides manual update (or auto-update on re-opening the file):  the self-hotlink does not come from the live/open file, but from the last version saved on disk (or published by TW).  So, if you make changes to a self-linked module on negative story... you must save the PLN before doing the Update Module. 👍

 

https://help.graphisoft.com/AC/26/INT/index.htm?rhcsh=1&rhnewwnd=0&rhmapid=#t=_AC26_Help%2F080_Colla...

 

 

 

 

Erwin Edel
Rockstar

Instead of seperate stories, we use a 'workspace' to the side of floorplan. We put a polyline around each module and type the name below it, so it is easy to see which 'module' you are changing.

 

We have a saved view that zooms to the workspace and has all the relevant layers turned on.

 

Then it is just a matter of using trace and reference to see the module in relation to the model and selecting the parts to save the module each time after you made changes.

 

This works well for single story modules. For multiple stories, you would have to use the marquee tool.

 

To exclude the elements from schedules, we 'pin' the elements to a custom renovation filter. You 'unpin' them when making changes and then 'pin' again.

 

Is this better than editing in place? NO! but still, it might be better than your current workflow.

DGSketcher
Legend

I don't know why this isn't Priority 1 on the Wishlist. GS just don't seem to understand how fundamental this is to modelling and how disrupting the Hotlink - Find source, edit, save, update process is to the design workflow.

It is hard to understand and their apparent content with the current approach is quite frustrating as it is likely whats blocking any development towards a proper grouping functionality and all potential it would realise. In what scenario is a modern BIM/CAD application feasible without it?

Erwin Edel
Rockstar

It's certainly stopping me from using modules for any repeating instance where I'm better off remodeling it a few times manually, because this is faster.

 

That said, saving from the current project (the method I descibed above) and updating modules has gotten a lot faster since I think AC21 or there about.

 

In place editing would still be the superior option and would certainly see me use modules more for repeating elements.

Stefan Videnov
Booster

Thank you for the amazing reply!
Around 60% of the time I am using modules from the same file, but there are drawbacks to this as well.

Let's be honest - we need features, not workarounds. 

The only workaround that seems to be working quite well in this program is using the Reno filter for pinning different design options, but still - we need features.

Erwin Edel
Rockstar

Stefan asked me in a PM to explain our method a bit more, rather than keep it in PM, I figured it might be interesting for more people.

 

ErwinEdel_0-1673863789232.png

Quick screen shot of the 'workplace'. On the top left of the navigator, you can see our saved view (MOD Module Werkplaats). After opening that, you scroll / zoom to the module you want to change, in this case 'PLG_A' (shorthand for floorplan A). We select the elements and then 'unpin' them on the top right, so they are no longer linked to the custom renovation filter.

 

Next, make your changes, you can use trace and reference to see the module in relation to the model. When you're done making changes, selec the elements again and then save (and overwrite) the module file. After that, 'pin' the elements back to the filter, update modules and you are done.

 

Perks:

  • no need to manage attributes across files
  • easy to copy around elements between multiple modules
  • easy to edit module in relation to the model
Promisito
Newcomer

One function we desperately need in Archicad is the ability to edit modules in modelling space, in real time. Something like Sketchup and Rhinos block edit mode

 

This post merged with another wish for the same thing

Barry - moderator.

Lingwisyer
Guru

Sketchup Components are sooo nice to work with. but unless there is a big overhaul of how groups in AC work, which there probably should be, I doubt we will ever see this functionality... The existing wish of inplace editting of modules woulld go a long way and covers some aspects that Components would.

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