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Modeling
About Archicad's design tools, element connections, modeling concepts, etc.

Metropol Parasol

Hello all,

Sometime back I recently came across this project and was fascinated by it.
Sometime shortly after that I came across an article ( I believe it was on Architosh) that claimed the project was conceived and designed entirely in ArchiCAD.

Now looking at the construction completion date as well as extrapolating from what the design period would be, it doesn't seem likely that this was a project that was done using ArchiCAD 15, whose new modeling tools would seem like a good or great candidate for such a project.

In fact it says that Jurgen Mayer (the architect) won the competition to design it way back in 2004.

That would have been around ArchiCAD 9 or 10.

Now my question is, assuming it's true that this project was done in ArchiCAD, does anyone know how they did it without ArchiCAD 15's new modeling tools (And assuming they weren't using some special beta version), because I just can't see how you can pull this off with ArchiCAD 14 or any of the earlier versions.

My own experience with various software informs my that to complete such a project I would probabaly use some combination of Maya (or 3ds MAX) to develop the overall form and then something like Rhinoceros 3D to translate those undulating organic forms into something that can be frabricated for assembliy on site.


Does anyone have any clue how this project was done, if it was done in ArchiCAD?


http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/6y3i2Q/urbanpeek.com/2011/08/04/metropol-parasol/
11 REPLIES 11
Anonymous
Not applicable
Barry Kelly
Moderator
Jose Gemez has posted something similar to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYtDqCwc80

It looks like each fin is straight so it could have been modelled as a series of slabs that are saved as objects and rotated to stand up.
That could have been done in any version of Archicad.

Otherwise complex profile walls would be the way to go with the shape of the fin being the profile and the length of the wall being the depth of the fin.
I think complex profiles became available in version 10?

Basically model it as it is built - like one of those plywood dinosaur kits.

Barry.
One of the forum moderators.
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Barry wrote:
Jose Gemez has posted something similar to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYtDqCwc80

It looks like each fin is straight so it could have been modelled as a series of slabs that are saved as objects and rotated to stand up.
That could have been done in any version of Archicad.

Otherwise complex profile walls would be the way to go with the shape of the fin being the profile and the length of the wall being the depth of the fin.
I think complex profiles became available in version 10?

Basically model it as it is built - like one of those plywood dinosaur kits.

Barry.
Okay that makes sense in terms of how you would actually build the individual slabs inside ArchiCAD, but it doesn't explain how you would align them to ensure that they form a structure with an overall smooth form and continuous curvature without jinks and the like.

It doesn't even explain how you would build the initial structure from which you derive those slabs.
The fins are a post-rationalized articulation of a form that had already been modeled with a smooth form and smooth curvature.They are not how the initial structure was built IT would be a painstaking process to model a structure like this from a scratch on the basis of those fins and slices and then try to work out how they fit together, rather than starting from what the overall finished form will look like and derive the fins from that.

Even those dinosaur kits you talk about I would imagine start from a complete form of what the finished dinosaur will be and then that gets sliced to produce the fins that form the kit.
It's not like they start modeling the final dinosaur from what the fins will look like. That would be nuts.

I think the second article provided by ricosta makes the most sense in terms of the software used.

I used to build stuff like that in grad aschool all the time and for fabrication and the workflow tended to be to buld your form in something like Maya or MAx using polygonal or Sub-Division modelling which allows a great deal of flexibility and then convert those forms into NURBS objects for export to Rhino3D which is what would allow us to fabricate the forms.

In Rhino we would then use a plugin like Grasshopper or just plain old Rhinoscriptiing to "slice" the forms into fabricatable fins that can be passed into a CNC router or a Laser cutter or even a 3D printer.
But that's a a workflow for small models. For a large project like this, I imagine it was all CNC routing of wood panels.segmented to fit your standard 5 axis router.

Incidentally I recently discovered that you could also conceivably achieve a project like this in SKetchup of all programs. Using the smooth and subdivide Ruby plugin to build the form and then another Ruby script called slicer to slice the form and lay the slices out to allow you to export the slices or fins as 2D flat shapes that can be CNC routed.


What I still don't get even with all this is where ArchiCAD fits into this workflow.
Even if we are to account for the new Maya (and Rhino3D) information, the article still mentions ArchiCAD.

Unless ArchiCAD was used to model the context and then the site was exported and used in Maya and Rhino to build the actual project and form.
Anonymous
Not applicable
Since as long as i've been using AC, v 4.5, you have been able to slice whatever model through the use of GDL, and achieve this system.
However when i cut into an imported model from 3ds i only get contours and outer surface, not closed solids.
So the volume had to be done in AC, and i don't know with which tool. Or it has been imported through a format that Archicad could slice while keeping it solid as it does with its native geometry.
I would be curious to know which.
Anonymous
Not applicable
I try to make something similar to Metrosol when i did this video. I think that archicad can do almost everytihng only with a litle help (objective, mesh generator...) and now with shell tools its more easier...
Barry wrote:
Jose Gemez has posted something similar to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYtDqCwc80

It looks like each fin is straight so it could have been modelled as a series of slabs that are saved as objects and rotated to stand up.
That could have been done in any version of Archicad.

Otherwise complex profile walls would be the way to go with the shape of the fin being the profile and the length of the wall being the depth of the fin.
I think complex profiles became available in version 10?

Basically model it as it is built - like one of those plywood dinosaur kits.

Barry.
Anonymous
Not applicable

With Archicad 15 its very easy!!!
I'm spanish and here archicad 15 is no realeased yet, when I have a legal copy I explain how to do this in 15 seconds...
I have many videos about "complex geometry" in youtube GARQUITECTOS Youtube Channel and some tutorial in spanish in my web www.garquitectos.es
stefan
Expert
I'm looking for an explanation as well.

Without knowing the definitive answer, I assume it would be modeled inside Rhino or Maya and maybe optimized with the Grashopper plugin to generate all sections.

The end result (static) could be used inside ArchiCAD for final production drawings or for building permit. I don't think this kind of projects is really created with 2D drawings, anyway.

So yes, quite unclear which parts would have been done in ArchiCAD...

(this reminds me > ArchiCAD should enable scripting, e.g. in Python, to be able to support all these custom workflows and tools)
--- stefan boeykens --- bim-expert-architect-engineer-musician ---
Archicad27/Revit2023/Rhino8/Unity/Solibri/Zoom
MBP2023:14"M2MAX/Sonoma+Win11
Archicad-user since 1998
my Archicad Book
Anonymous
Not applicable
stefan wrote:
I'm looking for an explanation as well.

Without knowing the definitive answer, I assume it would be modeled inside Rhino or Maya and maybe optimized with the Grashopper plugin to generate all sections.

The end result (static) could be used inside ArchiCAD for final production drawings or for building permit. I don't think this kind of projects is really created with 2D drawings, anyway.

So yes, quite unclear which parts would have been done in ArchiCAD...

(this reminds me > ArchiCAD should enable scripting, e.g. in Python, to be able to support all these custom workflows and tools)
I had forgotten this topic!!!
The example was created with "shell" tool and "slab" but its better do all with shell.
Always you can do with rhino, maya... and use "Object Slice" by Master Script to show section in the floor plan.
I made a tutorial in spanish about "Object Slicer" (a very useful tool with some limitations)
"Object Slicer tutorial - Spanish"
stefan
Expert
Can I post Autodesk software here ? 😉

I reviewed the 123D apps from them and 123D Make can be used to generate cut sheets from a sliced 3D volume. ArchiCAD is not in sight here, but that's beside the point.

http://cad-3d.blogspot.com/2011/11/123d-apps-from-autodesk-create-make-and.html

Anyone know what software workflow was used for the actual Metropol Parasol?
--- stefan boeykens --- bim-expert-architect-engineer-musician ---
Archicad27/Revit2023/Rhino8/Unity/Solibri/Zoom
MBP2023:14"M2MAX/Sonoma+Win11
Archicad-user since 1998
my Archicad Book
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