cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Design forum

Modelling complex road networks

Paul King
Expert
Hi, I want to find a way to put a camber in a complex roading network, with radiused road intersections, variations in road width etc as you move along (i.e. a strictly linear/extruded solution wont work)

Basically I need to start with a slab, that follows the road edge boundaries, and bulge it upwards between the edges

Essentially, imagine a piece of Swiss cheese, with a slab defining the outside edges and holes in the middle, and now attempt to smoothly bulge upwards between the slab edges and holes.

Attempting to do this via contours on a mesh is prohibitively time consuming (and it crashes my machine after a while).

What do others do to emulate lofting or bulging in non linear perforated elements ?
PAUL KING
https://www.prime.net.nz
ArchiCAD 8-25
Octane Render Plugin for ArchiCAD
Twinmotion 2022
Windoze 11
Intel Core i9 10900K
Nvidia Gforce RTX 3080
32 Gb DDR3
2x4K monitor extended desktop
34 REPLIES 34

Paul King
Expert
Nuge wrote:
if you are using octane render why dont you create a displacement map and apply it to the meshes (use a gradient to get the curve looking right)

Nuge
That is a very interesting idea! Could certainly save a lot of memory.
But would I then need a displacement map the size of several city blocks to deal with all the specific irregularities in the road widths ,transitions, radii etc? How big can a texture be in Octane ? i.e am I correct in assuming a single linear segment of gradient as an alpha map would only work for linear roads? Would I have issues with cars etc being embedded in road surface?

Cheers
PAUL KING
https://www.prime.net.nz
ArchiCAD 8-25
Octane Render Plugin for ArchiCAD
Twinmotion 2022
Windoze 11
Intel Core i9 10900K
Nvidia Gforce RTX 3080
32 Gb DDR3
2x4K monitor extended desktop

Nuge
Advocate
Paul,

you would need 1 map to cover the area you are working in (you could have several maps that you change out for each camera if that works), I think octane can handle 31,000x31,000 but some one else may be able to confirm this figure.

The car issue could be a killer as yes your cars would protude into the displaced mesh (you will have to manually match each car the the displaced mesh)

you will need to build the map in photoshop and make the necessary changes to match your road widths etc
AC25 i9 11900K / 128G ram / GTX 3090 / Enscape

Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
With a little effort I was able to do this using complex profiles and morphs. Is it close enough?
• For an intersection you will need to split the road at logical points that you can control. To create the camber on the road on the curve you will need to do some extra steps but they are not that difficult.
• BTW AC is not made to do this…
Screen Shot 2014-10-05 at 4.48.13 PM.png
eduardo rolón AIA NCARB
Another of the forum moderators.
Macbook Pro M1 Max 64GB ram
OS X 10.XX latest
AC25 US/INT -> AC08
Puerto Rico, BVI, Miami

Vectorworks 2022

Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
another shot
eduardo rolón AIA NCARB
Another of the forum moderators.
Macbook Pro M1 Max 64GB ram
OS X 10.XX latest
AC25 US/INT -> AC08
Puerto Rico, BVI, Miami

Vectorworks 2022

Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
Elevation
eduardo rolón AIA NCARB
Another of the forum moderators.
Macbook Pro M1 Max 64GB ram
OS X 10.XX latest
AC25 US/INT -> AC08
Puerto Rico, BVI, Miami

Vectorworks 2022

Paul King
Expert
ejrolon wrote:
With a little effort I was able to do this using complex profiles and morphs. Is it close enough?
• For an intersection you will need to split the road at logical points that you can control. To create the camber on the road on the curve you will need to do some extra steps but they are not that difficult.
• BTW AC is not made to do this…
Thanks for that Erjrolon.

This far I have got with my own experiments with morphs and complex profiles, but it was the radiused 3 way and 4 way intersections , and the smooth changes in width that stumped me.

Another idea was to make a mesh, apply a single raised contour to a polyline running down the centre (which I easily adjust to deal with changing road shape), and use morph smooth faces command to give curvature - but no luck.

I looked into the sketchup option too, but I note that at least one explicitly says it can only handle parallel sided roads
PAUL KING
https://www.prime.net.nz
ArchiCAD 8-25
Octane Render Plugin for ArchiCAD
Twinmotion 2022
Windoze 11
Intel Core i9 10900K
Nvidia Gforce RTX 3080
32 Gb DDR3
2x4K monitor extended desktop

Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
I know that straight change in width can be accomplished with the Shell tool using the Ruled Surface Option. So you might explore on how to model the two streets But a 4 way curved intersection will require a lot of planning on how to build the individual segments. In one case I did a combination of Morphs and Meshes to achieve some of the transitions.

• So my workflow for this would be:
1. Define specific ridges on the streets and simplify the ridges as much as possible.
2. Draw the Ridge using the Morph tool to have points to snap to.
3. Used ruled surfaces for sections that change width or merge
4. Use Complex Profiles converted to Morphs for simple curves or straight elements that elevate.
5. Use Complex Profiles applied to Beams or Walls for straight sections.
6. For the Big intersections then I would try a mesh.

----
But still AC is not a good tool for this
Screen Shot 2014-10-05 at 6.33.18 PM.png
eduardo rolón AIA NCARB
Another of the forum moderators.
Macbook Pro M1 Max 64GB ram
OS X 10.XX latest
AC25 US/INT -> AC08
Puerto Rico, BVI, Miami

Vectorworks 2022

Paul King
Expert
ejrolon wrote:
I know that straight change in width can be accomplished with the Shell tool using the Ruled Surface Option. So you might explore on how to model the two streets But a 4 way curved intersection will require a lot of planning on how to build the individual segments. In one case I did a combination of Morphs and Meshes to achieve some of the transitions.

• So my workflow for this would be:
1. Define specific ridges on the streets and simplify the ridges as much as possible.
2. Draw the Ridge using the Morph tool to have points to snap to.
3. Used ruled surfaces for sections that change width or merge
4. Use Complex Profiles converted to Morphs for simple curves or straight elements that elevate.
5. Use Complex Profiles applied to Beams or Walls for straight sections.
6. For the Big intersections then I would try a mesh.

----
But still AC is not a good tool for this
Hi thanks again Ejrolon. - the trick is that there are no straight changes in width - all follow curves.. and trying to join a morph to a mesh without visible seams will be a nightmare...
I was really hoping for a simple lofting technique.
If I am doing the intersections and other complicated parts with mesh anyway, then I might as well do everything with mesh, as the straight parts are just linking straight across between the two complex ends- no nodes in the middle really need extra definition

I know Morph already has a single point bulge tool - I just need a way to consistently extend this bulge along the middle of roads

A couple of examples attached

*** EDIT - the forum wont allow more than one it seems
PAUL KING
https://www.prime.net.nz
ArchiCAD 8-25
Octane Render Plugin for ArchiCAD
Twinmotion 2022
Windoze 11
Intel Core i9 10900K
Nvidia Gforce RTX 3080
32 Gb DDR3
2x4K monitor extended desktop

Paul King
Expert
... and the second image
PAUL KING
https://www.prime.net.nz
ArchiCAD 8-25
Octane Render Plugin for ArchiCAD
Twinmotion 2022
Windoze 11
Intel Core i9 10900K
Nvidia Gforce RTX 3080
32 Gb DDR3
2x4K monitor extended desktop

Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
Without having all the information, this is an example using Meshes and Morphs. It is not pretty and I am convinced that if we had specific Civil data it could be made smoother since I am sure that those levels will not work.
Screen Shot 2014-10-06 at 7.37.31 AM.png
eduardo rolón AIA NCARB
Another of the forum moderators.
Macbook Pro M1 Max 64GB ram
OS X 10.XX latest
AC25 US/INT -> AC08
Puerto Rico, BVI, Miami

Vectorworks 2022

Paul King
Expert
Hi thank you for all your effort there Ejrolon!

You are showing the same sorts of faceting problems I hit when trying.

Sadly there is no civil data - as this is just a visualization project - but it also represents a long standing frustration for me that I have never found a way to make a smoothly rounded realistic looking road intersections for my visualizations.

I think I will surrender for this project, but maybe someday an 'obvious' technique will occur to someone on here! If so, please post it!
PAUL KING
https://www.prime.net.nz
ArchiCAD 8-25
Octane Render Plugin for ArchiCAD
Twinmotion 2022
Windoze 11
Intel Core i9 10900K
Nvidia Gforce RTX 3080
32 Gb DDR3
2x4K monitor extended desktop

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
I would probably use Complex Profile Beams for the Curbs, because Complex Profile Beams can be curved, or they can follow a 3D polygonal path and the beam segments would now join properly.
For the road between the curbs I would probably use the Shell Tool as it can be composite, it can have a Ruled surface and also a Shell can have a boundary polygon defined for it which could handle the changes in road width. Plus, the 2D of a Shell is a true 3D representation so on Floor Plan the boundaries would be correct.
....................................................................................................
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC26
Loving Archicad since 1995

sinceV6
Enthusiast
Sorry to hear that. And sorry to be kind of late. Weekends are for the family

So this is a quick 5 minute test. From sketchup to archiCAD. It can be done, but there are some things that have been already said.-
1. If this is a visualization project, and spans a whole city... AC is not the tool for that. AC will help with the super fast modeling of buildings (to any LOD), but roads and such will not be as easy to do, at least not to the detail you are trying to accomplish in AC.
2. I don't think anyone will ever come up with a workflow that covers what you need inside AC with the current tools. As long as AC doesn't change its core modeling algorithm (eg, ditching GDL for NURBS) the tools will just go to a certain extent.
3. The budget part can be solved using free tools, such as sketchup or blender, to model the rest of the visualization elements, but the time issue won't if you don't know any other tools besides AC.

Best regards.

sinceV6
Enthusiast
And, as you probably have already tried, like you said, using a single mesh might be the better option, with a user defined edge for the center of the road and the necessary additional hotspots for control. Just don't mind the road ends... in AC it will need to be as efficient as possible for the whole model to work considering this is visualization only.

Best regards.
good old mesh.png

Paul King
Expert
Thanks V6 - that gives me some hope!

Sadly you are right - I don't have time to learn Sketchup , but that looks like an elegant solution.

The mesh approach with center ridge you show - yes that was what I tried, then converted o morph with the aim of using edge smoothing function - but could never get it to work for some reason

Maybe next time!

Cheers, and thank you everybody for your suggestions !
PAUL KING
https://www.prime.net.nz
ArchiCAD 8-25
Octane Render Plugin for ArchiCAD
Twinmotion 2022
Windoze 11
Intel Core i9 10900K
Nvidia Gforce RTX 3080
32 Gb DDR3
2x4K monitor extended desktop

Didn't find the answer? Start a new discussion

Labels

Still looking?

Browse more topics

Back to forum

See latest solutions

Accepted solutions

Start a new discussion!