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Profile to follow slope of roof

4hotshoes
Advocate
Can I use the same complex profile for a roof eave and rake? I want it to look the same with the detailed fascia and soffit wrapping and joining at the peak. I pretty sure I can do the eave with the fascia perpendicular to the roof plain. But it is not clear how to get it to wrap the corner and follow up the slope. I know that I can thicken the roof and set the ends, but I want to add detail to the profile. Is there a video for this? Can it be done? I am still new to AC. Thanks

Todd
Todd Oeftger
Ligature Studio

AC23 and AC24 Mac MacBook Pro 15", 2019, 2.3 GHz i9, 32GB, Radeon Pro 560X 4GB, 500GB SSD, 32" Samsung Display (2560x1440)
18 REPLIES 18

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso

If you model it all as a Complex Profile, I figure you should be able to use the beam tool then change the rotation and slope of the segments as required after drawing it in plan. ArchiCAD will finish all your connections then.

BarryKelly_3-1634780296416.png

 


Ling.

AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

4hotshoes
Advocate
Awesome! Thanks
Todd Oeftger
Ligature Studio

AC23 and AC24 Mac MacBook Pro 15", 2019, 2.3 GHz i9, 32GB, Radeon Pro 560X 4GB, 500GB SSD, 32" Samsung Display (2560x1440)

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
The annoying thing is that there is no way to make it associative, so any changes to the roof size need to be reflected onto the fascias.


Ling.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Railings can be associative.
And railings can use custom profile rails.
And also they can be angled so they are vertical or perpendicular to the roof plane.
And they can continue around corners.

I am not saying this will be a perfect solution, but it might be one worth exploring.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
Hm, I had assumed railings would not work in this case due to how it handles connections.


Ling.

EDIT: After a quick play around, I cannot figure out how to get the connections to clean up nicely and end up getting the twisted kinks that I had figured would happen... It might work if there is a way to get the entire railing to align perpendicular to the reference line, rather than just the posts.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Lingwisyer wrote:
Hm, I had assumed railings would not work in this case due to how it handles connections.
I am not sure if it will work, that's why I said it might be worth exploring.
It will certainly work on the gable alone but I am not sure about turning the corner to then go flat along the eave.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
I kind of got it working with a railing. With zero length direct connections, deleting the kinks cleans up the connections nicely.

If you are wanting it to be associative along gable ends, you will need to use single pitch roofs as you cannot associate with the ridge for some reason, while you can associate with every other node... If you do not mind fixing the ridge point each change then there is no issue with using a multiplane for gables.

One flaw in the railing tool is that it would seem that you cannot make an enclosed railing, so you will have the add an extra node of the edges in order to get it to appear continuous.



Ling.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

Barry Kelly
Moderator

I was just playing with it myself and discovered the gable ridge problem too.

I even managed to get the transition at the corner when the side profile remains vertical.

BarryKelly_4-1634780377306.png

 


The enclosed railing (finishing where you start) is a known problem and hopefully one that will get fixed.

Barry.


One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Barry Kelly
Moderator

For those following along.
It seems to work best if you use a profile with the origin on the outside of the profile (for testing I just used the stair nosing profile).

BarryKelly_0-1634779401886.png

 


Use the profile width as the offset for the railing.
This will move it out from under the roof.

BarryKelly_1-1634779513380.png

 


Set the rail connection to a 'Direct Connection' and use the profile width for extension 1 length.

BarryKelly_2-1634779546707.png

 


You may need to do this for extension 2 length depending whether the railing was drawn clockwise or anti-clockwise.
The direction of the profile (which side of the origin it is on) will determine which direction you have to draw the railing (I think - I am still testing all of this).

Barry.


One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
I am assuming that by using the outside edge of the profile, then offsetting it, solves the kinked connection issue as it now has the offset edge to work with before it reaches the corner? Though this only works when you have exterior corners as interior corners have the opposite kink which is made worse by the offset.

Rather than using a Direct Connection with a Subtraction, you can use a Gooseneck with a Sloped Railing: Horizontal set to your Profile width. With one setting, you get all of your corners. Using a direct connection, you need a left side Subtraction when going from horizontal to sloped, and a right side Subtraction when going from sloped to horizontal.

I have been unable to get a tangential eave to work with an offset, so as far as I can tell, an offset is only required for a vertical eave.
The direction of the profile (which side of the origin it is on) will determine which direction you have to draw the railing (I think - I am still testing all of this).

The direction of the profile depends on how it is drawn relative to it's origin. ie. If it is drawn with the outside edge facing the right side, then you draw the railing anti-clockwise and vice versa.



Ling.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Lingwisyer wrote:
I am assuming that by using the outside edge of the profile, then offsetting it, solves the kinked connection issue as it now has the offset edge to work with before it reaches the corner?

Yes, this allows for the transition path to be calculated along the outside of the profile where you will have a greater than zero length for each section.
When you mitre these back to the roof corner, all the transitions will take place at the one node, so section length will be zero, which is why it doesn't work.

Lingwisyer wrote:
Though this only works when you have exterior corners as interior corners have the opposite kink which is made worse by the offset.

I haven't worked internal corners out yet.
All in the same plane is fine, it is when they go from raking back to horizontal again it just doesn't work.
I don't think it is actually possible as the flat transition needs to be on the back (wrong side) of the horizontal moulding.
If you figure it out, let me know.

BarryKelly_0-1634780071879.pngBarryKelly_1-1634780122874.png

 


Barry.


One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Erwin Edel
Mentor
Sometimes for a better floorplan projection you can use a roof and use an inverse profile to SEO cut out the bits you don't need. For the SEO it is easy to use profiled beams.

The sloping bits in below example are all roofs:


That's ArchiCAD16 model.

The end result:



edit: apparantly you cannot use the IMG tags on this forum, even though the button sits there when you write a post.

edit after this popped up again: IMG tags now work in 2021, woo!
Erwin Edel, Project Lead, Leloup Architecten
www.leloup.nl

ArchiCAD 9-24 NED FULL
Windows 10 Pro
Adobe Design Premium CS5

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
Yeah... That is probably why you generally do not do your bargeboard with the same profile as your fascia.

@Erwin Edel, yeah... the hyperlink tag also did not work the last time I tried either.



Ling.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
Lingwisyer wrote:
do not do your bargeboard with the same profile as your fascia

In regards to this, in Edit Mode you could select all of your bargeboards and change their profile to a different one, either completely different or stretched to match the angle change.



Ling.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

Jason Roesler
Newcomer
Barry, trying to follow along here. We use 1x8 over a 1x12 fascia on a few of our projects, and I am trying to see if this will work for us. Is there a trick to get the complex profile to pull into the railing tool? I have "Use with:" set to Railing and Library parts but in the railing settings box there doesn't seem to be anywhere select the profile. Thoughts?
I was working in an old project, and 22 Library wasn't completely loaded into the project.
Jason Roesler, AT

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Jason wrote:
I was working in an old project, and 22 Library wasn't completely loaded into the project.
You will need the full 22 library loaded (or at least the railing objects and macros - but you will have to extract the LCF to get to the individual parts).
Then in the railing options you will see the 'Profiled Rail 22' where you can choose the profile you have created.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Jason Roesler
Newcomer
Barry wrote:


You will need the full 22 library loaded (or at least the railing objects and macros - but you will have to extract the LCF to get to the individual parts).
Then in the railing options you will see the 'Profiled Rail 22' where you can choose the profile you have created.

Barry.
Yeah, I went back and edited my comment to include the but about working in the old project and that I was able to trace the issue back to having the wrong libraries loaded. Thanks for your response though.

After playing around with it, we are having issues getting it to clean up to something we can use though. It is an interesting use of the tools in ArchiCAD, and I can see it being useful in some cases, it was worth a try.

Jason Roesler, AT

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
So, it would appear that railing segmentation depends on how you draw your railing. If you use the auto associative pathing you will get a single segment for the railing between your two selected nodes regardless of how many actual nodes there were between your two. So when using it make sure you do not just auto path the entire roof, but at a minimum, add path nodes at locations where you have a transition between say a facia board and a bargeboard. If you do not do this you will be unable to select the relevant segment to change it's rotation / profile.



Ling.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

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