Wishes forum
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Add ability to create true reflected ceiling plans

Tomek Piatek
Contributor
We have a 3D model. We cut it in plan and look down on it to get the floor plan. I should be able to just look up from the cutting plane to get a true RCP. It's the same thing! Just let us look up. Please.

---
ArchiCAD 23
Windows 10 Pro
16 REPLIES 16

No, it’s not the same thing. They call it a reflected ceiling plan because it’s what you would see if you were looking down into a mirror on the floor. If you were lying on your back on the floor looking up, it would be “mirror reversed” from an RCP, and would be very confusing to any one trying to understand it.
Richard
--------------------------
Richard Morrison, Architect-Interior Designer
AC25 (since AC6.0), Win10

Tomek Piatek
Contributor
Ah yes. You’re absolutely right.

What I meant is that if we can already cut and project a regular floor plan it’s really the “same”, as in what the underlying graphics engine is capable of, to generate an RCP. This would save a lot of work setting up model and graphic overrides, which would still remain as an option. I’m advocating for a more automated approach.

---
ArchiCAD 23
Windows 10 Pro

Jarrod Phillips
Newcomer
Hi Tomek,

I completely agree. The option (highlighted below) should be available in the floor plan cut plane settings for 2D documents. This would allow lighting and ceiling fixtures to be linked to the 3D model while simultaneously having the ability to display a 2D symbol of the light or fixture. I understand that this might be difficult for developers at Graphisoft to add this feature, given the confusing nature of reflected ceiling plans as mentioned by @Richard Morrison.


Reflected ceiling plans in their current state is creating an additional workload given that any 2D symbols placed on the drawing will not be linked to the model (which defeats the purpose of BIM). This needs to be resolved ASAP.

Jarrod.
Jarrod Phillips
Graduate of Architecture,
Stukel Architecture, Sydney
Australia

Versions 15 to 24
Lenovo ThinkStation P330 Tower - 9th Gen Intel Core i9-9900, 32GB ram, NVIDIA Quadro RTX 4000 (8GB), Windows 10

holmarch
Newcomer
Very unfortunate that ArchiCAD cannot do RCPs. RCPs are extremely important for our office. Crazy that ArchiCAD does not even know what an RCP is. They are basically plans but look up… nothing more or less. Or to put it another way... they are REFLECTED CEILING PLANS. Pretty simple concept. You should see the roof lines, soffits, etc. Archicad you get everything showing up as dotted and you see stuff you should not see. Like roof ridge and valley lines. What am I supposed to tell the contractor... oh that is a BIM issue. This has rendered ArchiCAD useless in production drawings. Only useful for Schematic Design.

It's a shame that you haven't taken the time to learn how to do RCPs in ArchiCAD. Here is a video:

Of course, you can adjust the display with MVOs and GOs to get exactly what you need in production drawings. It must be amazing to you that firms still seem able to create production documents for millions of square feet/meters of buildings with such "useless" software.
Richard
--------------------------
Richard Morrison, Architect-Interior Designer
AC25 (since AC6.0), Win10

Barry Kelly
Moderator
holmarch wrote:
Crazy that ArchiCAD does not even know what an RCP is. They are basically plans but look up… nothing more or less. Or to put it another way... they are REFLECTED CEILING PLANS.

No they aren't.
That would be a mirror copy of what you want.
They are just a standard plan showing what is at ceiling level - just as you would another floor level.
You said it yourself, it is the view of the ceiling reflected on the plan - i.e. you are viewing from above the ceiling, which is why I said it is just like another plan view.

Obviously you need to adjust how elements appear in this view.
You can adjust the Floor Plan Cutting Plane which can affect elements showing as dashed or solid, and if objects are scripted properly, they can respond to the 'Reflected Ceiling' option in the Model View Option settings.

The 3D Document option with Reflected Ceiling Plan option is an easy way of reversing the effect of the FPCP and limiting its overall height.


Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

holmarch
Newcomer
I wanted help… not insults or be shamed! I was hoping for some constructive dialog as I just want to learn how to do RCPs in ArchiCAD to match the successful way we and other architects have been doing them for years. While I respect your opinion that an RCP is a plan cut above the ceiling looking down… I have never heard that definition. In our office (for the past 50 years), we follow the definition that an RCP is what you would see if you cut the room horizontally and had the ceiling reflected on the floor plan, like it was a giant mirror. You are going to see the soffits, roofs, beams, lights, etc. Handrails, cabinets and other items related to the floor would not show. If you use the 3d cutaway tool and cut from the bottom and look up, that is what you would see. See the attached that I generated this way. Of course, it needs to be flipped/mirrored, so it is the same orientation of the plan. But you get the idea. Archicad should be able to do this.

The video link provided does not show an RCP since they turn off the balcony. You need to see the balconies, soffits, roof line, etc. so you can detail, place finishes, lights etc. You should not see beams as dotted lines and you should not see the valleys and ridges on the roof. I have played around with the graphic overrides, but they are still not accurate. Also, a simple 2x2 or 2x4 gird is very restrictive, I see no mention of how to place, fire protection, systems, HVAC, etc. and a complex profile of a beam does not show the detail, just the outline.

Again, if someone can point me in the direction of how to do RCPs in ArchiCAD, I would be very grateful. At this point, it appears ArchiCAD is not able to generate a RCP without a ton of 2d work, which would be much faster in CAD. PROVE ME WRONG. PLEASE! YES… it is amazing that firms can produce accurate RCPs for millions of SF of buildings with ArchiCAD... what is the secret. I am ready to be SCHOOLED.

DGSketcher
Virtuoso
None of the many helpful members of this forum, particularly Barry, set out with conflict in mind. Unfortunately your description of what you are doing is flawed and this may be the source of the problem.
holmarch wrote:
While I respect your opinion that an RCP is a plan cut above the ceiling looking down… I have never heard that definition. In our office (for the past 50 years), we follow the definition that an RCP is what you would see if you cut the room horizontally and had the ceiling reflected on the floor plan, like it was a giant mirror. You are going to see the soffits, roofs, beams, lights, etc. Handrails, cabinets and other items related to the floor would not show.
All you have said above is correct. The RCP plan layout stays the same e.g. you can overlay it on the floor plan and the drawing contains whatever you choose to display projected down from the ceiling level and above.
holmarch wrote:
If you use the 3d cutaway tool and cut from the bottom and look up, that is what you would see. See the attached that I generated this way. Of course, it needs to be flipped/mirrored, so it is the same orientation of the plan.
This is something different & a more complicated method. If you are looking directly at the ceiling image it isn't a reflection, hence the need for you to flip & mirror to get what you want.

You have been offered good advice by two of the top contributors to this forum. Take some time to understand how the software works, avoid sweeping statements on functionality based on limited use and you may find the assistance you need is a bit more forthcoming.
Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

Jeff Galbraith
Participant
Our firm adopted Archicad last year and Reflected Ceiling plans have been one of, if not the most frustrating things about the software. Archicad's approach to RCP's seems stuck in the old 2D way of accomplishing them by simply turning on and off layers...not truly 3D BIM. We have been able to overcome most of the issues using a complex set of layer combinations, Graphic Overrides and individual element settings with a little 2D drafting over the top.

Some element types have the display option to have multiple view settings conducive to RCP's called 'Projected with Overhead'. This option modifies the objects appearance by allows things like beams to be have one line type it's located below the cut line, and another livetype if it's above the cut plane. SO, if the overhead livetype for a beam is set to dashed so it shows up that way in a plan view, you can then use a graphic override in your RCP's to change that linetype to a solid line.

Not all elements however have the 'Projected with Overhead' option, so you have to apply more graphic overrides...

It's cumbersome and imperfect, but you can get most of what you want if you're willing to dig deep into understanding the options in the software...
Jeff G
Archicad 23 USA (full), Macbook Pro (16-inch 2019)

Jeff Galbraith
Participant
...for the moderators: It would be super helpful if the next version added the ability for more elements to have visibility controlled / limited to the view range, especially slabs. Without that option it makes it way harder to show and hide items above and below the cut line. There are workarounds...but they are workarounds and leave something to be desired.
Jeff G
Archicad 23 USA (full), Macbook Pro (16-inch 2019)

Barry Kelly
Moderator
holmarch wrote:
I wanted help… not insults or be shamed!

Sorry, I was not trying to insult or shame you.
Just correct what you had written.

holmarch wrote:
If you use the 3d cutaway tool and cut from the bottom and look up, that is what you would see. See the attached that I generated this way. Of course, it needs to be flipped/mirrored, so it is the same orientation of the plan. But you get the idea. Archicad should be able to do this.

No don't use the 3D cutaway tool and then look up.
It will be mirrored as you say.
Use the floor plan and save as a 3D Document as explained in the video.
Actually I don't even do that but I rarely need detailed ceiling plans.
I just activate the layers I need to create an electrical and/or ceiling plans.
Then add objects, elements and linework for the lights, ceiling grids, etc., to produce the plans I need.

holmarch wrote:
The video link provided does not show an RCP since they turn off the balcony. You need to see the balconies, soffits, roof line, etc. so you can detail, place finishes, lights etc.

That is your choice.
You can adjust the cutting plane and offsets to show what you want if you use the 3D Document method.
I am still not convinced that a 3D Document is needed, but as I say I rarely do a real RCP.

holmarch wrote:
You should not see beams as dotted lines

That is your choice with the Model Veiw Option settings saved with the view of your RCP.

holmarch wrote:
and you should not see the valleys and ridges on the roof.

Unfortunately you either see the entire roof (perimeter, hips, ridges, etc.) or nothing.
You can't just show the perimeter of a roof unless you draw it yourself as linework.
Unless I have been missing something all these years (which could be possible).

holmarch wrote:
Also, a simple 2x2 or 2x4 gird is very restrictive

You can use any fill that you want or use an actual ceiling grid object.
Or construct it yourself with beams and slabs (that is the hard way I think), or I have heard of some using the curtain wall for ceiling grids.

holmarch wrote:
I see no mention of how to place, fire protection, systems, HVAC, etc.

The same as you do any other objects and elements.
Create new layers if you need to so you see them only in the RCP.

holmarch wrote:
and a complex profile of a beam does not show the detail, just the outline.

Again MVO settings allow you to show the edges and/or axis of a beam.
Beams can now have cover fills as well.



Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Jeff wrote:
...for the moderators: It would be super helpful if the next version added the ability for more elements to have visibility controlled / limited to the view range, especially slabs. Without that option it makes it way harder to show and hide items above and below the cut line. There are workarounds...but they are workarounds and leave something to be desired.
Unfortunately this is not in the control of the moderators.
We just look after this forum and are humble Archicad users just the same as you.
There is a wish section that is looked at by GS.
I am not guaranteeing they will be considered but many get flagged by GS and become official requests.


Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

methy
Newcomer
All the arguing aside, the intent of the original wish I think is essential to create a true 'Reflected Ceiling Plan' it shouldnt be hard to generate automatically without having to use 2d overlay or graphic override workarounds.

Like he said its all there in CAD/BIM 3D it should just be able to project/mirror/flip as required automatically to display correctly, with simple on off layer control, another great time saving feature for ArchiCAD to have on its tool belt.
Jason Clark
Architectural Designer - LBP Des2
AC23 & (Twinmotion 2019 still has better library)
AC24 & (Twinmotion 2020.2)

Tonic Arch
Beginner
Our office employs the 3D Document method endorsed by Richard.

Overrides are not required, the method affords the ability to apply auto-adjusting height labels, and hotlinked 3D consultant data appears as appropriate.
Dimensions and annotations can be applied as they would in any other 2D drawing.

There's nothing difficult about this, and it is the easiest, quickest and most accurate way to prepare RCP drawings in archicad.

I would only like to add the ability to be able to save the 3D Document settings for the floor plan projection and model display options [ as a favourite, for example ], thus ensuring consistency across users.
Rev 24 Build 3008
Windows 10 Pro
Core i7-6700 @ 3.40GHz | 32GB RAM | Quadro M2000

Tonic Architecture + Design | 7 Prospect St | Fortitude Valley
tonic.cc

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Tonic wrote:
I would only like to add the ability to be able to save the 3D Document settings for the floor plan projection and model display options [ as a favourite, for example ], thus ensuring consistency across users.

It is unfortunately not something where you can save the settings and transfer them from one file to another.
But you can certainly set it up 3D Documents in your template so they will be there for every new job you start.


Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Anonymous
Not applicable
You think it would be easy to present a 2D view looking up and it is a standard drawing. So in conclusion there is no way Archicad can produce an RCP as it can something like a floor plan, elevation or section etc. by changing view settings (i.e. cutting plane and direction) and the work around is a 3D view or 2D drafting?

Still looking?

Browse more topics

Back to forum

See latest solutions

Accepted solutions

Start a new discussion!