Easier / Better Schedules

[Geoff Briggs]

Currently there is a broad chasm between the powerful but hard to manipulate list schemes and the easier but very limited interactive schedule.

My point of reference is a Vertical Glazing Area (VGA) schedule required for a building permit under the Washington State energy code.

The requirements are:
1. Calculations can be performed (H x W x U value ÷ # of units = U Average)
2. Dissimilar object types can be grouped together (windows + doors w/ >50% glazing)
3. Units w/ matching list parameters can be grouped and totaled

The wished-for features are:
1. GUI for formatting list appearance (like spreadsheet)
2. Criteria builder like Find and Select
3. Spreadsheet-like formulas for calcs
4. Direct input of data into schedule (at least for non-dimensional fields like "Manufacturer")
5. Auto-update option
6. If a dbx is needed (like Int Sched) then make it a palette so we can apply changes and see them w/o close & re-open

At present a property script / list template scheme is required to build this type of schedule and while extraordinarily powerful, they also seem very inflexible in that any changes require code tweaks, often in two places. For the example above, first I have to build it or modify an existing set (or hope Steve in our office will do it). Now if I want to eliminate a parameter, say head height, so the list is more condensed, I'm forced to re-code the parameter script and the list template (...Steve). This should be much easier for such a basic schedule.

This kind of data manipulation would take but few clicks in a modern spread sheet environment which is why it has become the model I naturally gravitate towards.

Thus the big question: improve Interactive Schedule; create simpler, more interactive tools for working with property scripts & list templates; or make it easy to move the raw data to something like Excel and take advantage of an already well developed GUI?

[Karl Ottenstein]

Hi Geoff,

I very much agree that it would be wonderful to have a more flexible, graphic and modern interface for doing the kinds of data manipulation that you mention.

It seems that the I.S. already has wishes 2, 4 and 5 as well as requirements 2 and 3. Requirement 1 would be a great addition to the I.S.

See a recent post on a different thread where you and I were talking about a more specific issue:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=4003#4003

As you'll note there, you cannot avoid code tweaking ... the formulas will either be in a property script (in AC), or in spreadsheet cells or Visual Basic code (in Excel and/or Access). As far as eliminating or adding paramaters, that's actually pretty easy, but, yes it will be in two places - and I don't see a way around that.

I think that there are things that Graphisoft could do to improve the usability and functionality of the Calculate and Interactive Scheduler functions. But, I think that if they were to address all of the issues that you raise, they would in effect be implementing something equivalent to Microsoft Access. It would be better to make the ODBC driver freely available on the installation disk and have an appropriate user manual for people who want to go that route.... as well as a manual for the appropriate relational database on the Mac side (I have no experience there).

I agree with your bottom line:

Geoff wrote:
Thus the big question: improve Interactive Schedule; create simpler, more interactive tools for working with property scripts & list templates; or make it easy to move the raw data to something like Excel and take advantage of an already well developed GUI?

Cheers,
Karl

[Geoff Briggs]

A sensible course would be to improve IS to cover the vast majority or applications (some of which require calculations) while making the ODBC route available to all along with some documentation. The property scripts/list schemes, while old school, are a case of ain't broke, don't fix.

Karl wrote:
It seems that the I.S. already has wishes 2, 4 and 5 as well as requirements 2 and 3. Requirement 1 would be a great addition to the I.S.

Elaborating on wish #5, what I mean by auto-update is that once the schedule is placed on the drawing or in PM it will reflect changes without having to reopen the dialog box, at least after a rebuild. Which in turn compels me to reiterate wish #6. The IS dialog box needs to be non-modal.

Oh, and one more wish, Karl anointed Lord of the List.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Geoff wrote:
Elaborating on wish #5, what I mean by auto-update is that once the schedule is placed on the drawing or in PM it will reflect changes without having to reopen the dialog box, at least after a rebuild. Which in turn compels me to reiterate wish #6. The IS dialog box needs to be non-modal.

Got it. Good point - and I see there is a new wishlist item related to that (but without a poll).

I agree with your comment and original post about being able to have calculated fields in the I.S. Would be great. (This is no different than in Access where a query can have calculated fields ... wouldn't be that hard for GS to do ... perhaps you might make that a wish on the wishlist thread ... and use a poll as Djordje is now advising us.)

Geoff wrote:
Oh, and one more wish, Karl anointed Lord of the List.

But, I would have to pose for some Lord of the Dance - style photo like this guy, who is Lord of the Ranch:

(Actually, the story of the Lord of the Ranch is pretty amusing - friends in Oregon:
http://www.fishwhistle.com/legend.html

Cheers!
Karl