Wishes
Post your wishes about Graphisoft products: Archicad, BIMx, BIMcloud, and DDScad.

DWG functionality and Mass Moddeling.

Anonymous
Not applicable
I don't know if that was raised over here already or not but It so critical that I will raise this problem one more time.
- Exporting 3D file into dwg should give us "Walls, Slabs, Mass or Solid objects" (no meshes) in different files slitted by story (option?).
-Importing 3d dwg files should also bring native elements (walls, slabs, doors, windows, etc.).
That obviously leeds to another problem - lack of so called "Mass Modeling" - some elements can't be nicely imported (or created) as a native objects differently than GDL - object (or SEO). Unfortunately objects have limited functionality (no snapping as the most important one) and SEO have limited functionality (lack of representation of SEO operations in plan view, lack of snapping new points created by SEO).
It is critical - especially for large projects.
Today for example I have to bring Steel model from detailer (obviously I will have one - HUGE - believe me - object). Lack of proper cooperation with dwg is the reason I consider other software - exactly the same way other companies don't even consider switching to Archicad/Constructor.
Hope this will be resolved really soon.
Ooohh by the way - compatibility with the most up to date version of dwg - also veeery important - some update in that area GS? Hmmm ?

Thank you.
10 REPLIES 10
Djordje
Ace
Do a bit of research on IFC connectivity.

DWG is not smart or good enough for what you want.

Check the details at http://www.graphisoft.com/products/archicad/solutions/structural.html

And, it might also be that someone else did not do something ... don't automatically presume that others are ahead in the game.
Djordje



ArchiCAD since 4.55 ... 1995
HP Omen
Anonymous
Not applicable
Djordje, I'm currently working with many software packages (my work requires it) and interoperability is crucial over here, so IFC should be a clear choice, but:
-AutoCAD/ADT have no IFC (not free, out of the box at least) and I can't ask everybody I'm working with to buy special plugin to produce IFC files.
-Even though AC plugin for IFC is certified, it is very limited in some areas. For example - If I try to import IFC files produced not by AC most likely I will get huge amount od Objects instead of Walls, Beams etc.)
-Conversion times for big files are huge
-Connections with Steel details now: the link you sent I know, but ... no SDS2 supported, Others exporters in IFC limited to not round elements (I got embeds in round columns and I'm screwed), no anchorbolts, no holes? How am I suppose to do lift drawings of concrete without anchorbolts or plate holes? Unfortunately with all the fancy I/O plugins I was forced to use dxf (beleve me I was in contact with software developers and we could not resolve that.
-You say that dwg is not that inteligent, I think it is inteligent good enough (in some areas even better than AC, Gosh-I can't belive I siad that), don't ADT have walls? with composites? and other properties? That's all I need.And one more thing:

"And, it might also be that someone else did not do something ... don't automatically presume that others are ahead in the game."


I don't think I presumed soething. just have a wish. And I don't think anyone is ahead of the game. I just want to use AC/Constructor and that everybody is in the game. That's it.
Djordje
Ace
If your connectivity depends on good connectivity with Autodesk products, the only one that I know having IFC that works at all is Revit.

Autodesk is slow in adopting IFC ... that is why your conversions don't go.

Plus, sorry - DWG does NOT have "walls" or whatever. As DWG. ARX or whatever are the extensions of DWG do have them.

I do think that you should vent your frustration at other forums, of the people making software that does not support the exchange ...

Not being negative here - just putting the shoe on the right foot. It hurts otherwise.
Djordje



ArchiCAD since 4.55 ... 1995
HP Omen
Anonymous
Not applicable
I underestand that dwg is quite simple but ADT actually saves all the BIM information directly into DWG - it is Autocad that do not support those type of objects, informations (walls, etc.) and can't read them. It is not dwg's fault. I don't underestand why AC should be unable to read this information. NavisWorks for example can. They say IFC should be supported in ADT 2008. We'll see.
OT. Do I sound frustrated? I did not intended to at all. I'm really quiet guy. And what other forum are you referring to? ArchiTalk is my forum. Constructor is my software. In construction industry cooperation and information exchange is much more critical than in architecture. Where else I'm suppose to place my wishes? Unfortunately AutoCAD is still "industry standard". IFC is still premature, and not widely adopted. CIS/2 is not supported by AC/Constructor at all. So what am I suppose to do? Stop using Constructor or start to send wishes that are reasonable and can make this software real hit in Construction industry?

Again I'm not frustrated. If anybody get that filling I'm sorry. I just try to help in development process. That's all. I know things do not happen in the day, I just hope they will happen someday.
TomWaltz
Participant
Miki wrote:
IADT actually saves all the BIM information directly into DWG - it is Autocad that do not support those type of objects, informations (walls, etc.) and can't read them. .
ADT has BIM information?
Tom Waltz
Anonymous
Not applicable
Wow ADT contains BIM. I always thought that ADT is working with primitive objects, which doesn't contain any BUILDING INFORMATION. Well you can certainly create 3D massing studies in the initial phases but that's basically it. That's why Autodesk bought Revit.

If you want to load the 3D object into Archicad you should try to import it as an objects and save it as GDL object.

Here is how to:

- Go to the FILE>

- Once you select Open Object, pick the FILE TYPE to be .DWG file
- Then you will bring up the object in the Object Window and save it as a
GDL object that is placeable.
- Once you do this you can then place the object into your 2d window and
view it in 3D.

Let me know if it helps.

Cheers,

Markus
Anonymous
Not applicable
TomWaltz wrote:
Miki wrote:
IADT actually saves all the BIM information directly into DWG - it is Autocad that do not support those type of objects, informations (walls, etc.) and can't read them. .
ADT has BIM information?
You might not agree but ... yes. ADT have BIM functionality. You have: parametric walls, slabs, roofs, columns, etc. Where is the edge of BIM? Anyone specified? Because maybe AC id not "full" BIM? You can't connect the top of the wall with other element, etc. I know we are dividing a hair over here, but lets face it. ADT (we want it or not) is in a many ways BIM.

And GSNA, thank for the tip, but ... do you really think I don't know that way? I know it for years, but as much as it works well for a chair, it is not very good for whole steel structure.
Anonymous
Not applicable
Miki,

I guess you are right. The main point I am always confused about it is the fact that many people talk about BIM but do not understanding 100% what BIM is. I am not saying that you don't know what BIM is all I am saying is that I probably have another understanding of BIM.

Maybe the quote listed below from the AIA website will define our misunderstanding. Please pay attention to point 4 & 5. Now, if you are showing me that ADT has all the features as listed below I will acknowledge that I underestimated ADT.
1) We'll start with a client needing a room and establishing some general requirements. In 2D electronic drafting with NCS, we would show a floor plan, walls as polylines on a CAD Layer, a door symbol, a room stamp, and notations. When it is time to place our drawings on paper for plotting, we would use the NCS to organize the construction sets. Other information would be handled separately and not integrated into our CAD file.

2) With IAI IFC-compliant software, the model can support not only NCS standards but also integrated data that support design decisions. We can start with an IFC-SPACE that not only carries a plan view but also carries its geometric size, square footage, and volume. We can create and do reports on stacking diagrams and the like.

3) As the design progresses, we can use an IFC-WALL for quantity take-offs, thermal or energy calculations, and other analysis. This is the same wall used in our construction document views and our rendering. Even at this level, we can more fully determine whether our design meets our client's needs.

4) Product objects such as an IFC-DOOR or WINDOW allow a higher refinement to our design. Calculations and costing, which used to happen only after construction sets were more complete, can be done in the first days of a project.

5) Walls or objects can automate the creation of details, schedules, and levels of structure and provide product-specific installation needs. 4D construction scheduling can be tied to objects for construction sequencing.

6) Our design complete, the model information, including traditional CAD views and product data, is ready to automatically populate IAI IFC-compliant facility management software. Clients that manage buildings want these models, and architects have a value-added product once the design is complete.

7) The benefits of object intelligence enhance NCS in other ways. What were simple graphic elements have been given intelligence to help automate the task they represent.
Please let me know if this helps. I look forward to read from you.

PS: You may try MaxonForm as an alternative to open DWG files and import it into ArchiCAD as an GSM object afterwards.

Cheers,

Markus
Anonymous
Not applicable
GSNA wrote:
The main point I am always confused about it is the fact that many people talk about BIM but do not understanding 100% what BIM is. I am not saying that you don't know what BIM is all I am saying is that I probably have another understanding of BIM.
Problem is that there is not one definition of what BIM is.
http://bim.arch.gatech.edu/content_view.asp?id=402
Here are 5 definitions of what BIM is, but everybody try to bent it into its way. When there was no Revit Autodesk claimed that ADT is also BIM. Now when there is Revit they claim that Revit is the first full BIM (that of course is piece of cra...). In my personal opinion:
"BIM starts when you create model of your building and software generate Plan, Elevations and Sections from the model, and have no end."
I mean that I wall is parametric just by geometry it is good enough for me. If we'll start claiming - no, it have no cost information - I will ask - is cost info enough? what about, Light absorbencies, temperature resistance, and hundreds of other parameters that no software on the market define. In that case do we really have BIM software on the market?
BIM is Building Information Modeling. What kind of information we can model? Geometry - right?

And at the end. I is a simple wish. Lets not turn it into the next flame war.

Thank you.