Frustrating 3D navigation

[Anonymous]

I've always found moving in 3D in ArchiCAD to be a frustrating and inconsistent experience, in particular orbiting - though zooming is also not the best. It seems to happen when something is selected. ArchiCAD changes the point of rotation so that when you go to orbit, the model flies off into the distance. So you have to hit escape to deselect everything and make small orbit movements until the software realises where you want the rotation point to be. Or you have to resort to using the buttons at the bottom of the 3D window. That should not have to be done. It is extremely prohibitive to working in 3D. I find zooming is also difficult. It will inevitably jump too far into the zoom, so that when you try to get close to something you end up past it.

As a result the user has to abandon the idea of working in 3D and then navigate the different 2D views. The process of jumping into different windows - while advantageous at times - to accomplish a task really slows down the process. The brain has to switch modes each time it sees a new view or settings box. I have not found nearly as much difficulty working in SketchUp. Because of this I find modelling in ArchiCAD about 5 times slower than in SketchUp and generally just a more disjointed/ fragmented process.

AC15 has made some improvements into visual feedback in 3D so it seems Graphisoft is on the path toward improving the experience. It is critical to improve the 3D experience - constant visual feedback in perspective 3D is one of the reasons working in SketchUp feels more fluid and enjoyable. And the speed difference can be due to the brain remaining focused on the task at hand.

Summary - Please fix 3D navigation Thanks

I'd love to hear from the people that have voted this as not needed. Do you not have any issue at all in 3D or do you just not use 3D much?

[Eduardo Rolon]

Short answers based on preference, in my case I spend more time in AC than in SU:

1. I model faster in AC than in SU.
2. When switching to SU I expect it to work as AC and it does not and I have to spend some time getting used to it.

[Erich]

Voted not needed

I do a lot of work in 3D and have never had an issue navigating around either with orbit or with the walk around options. In fact, I find it much smoother than other 3D programs I have worked with.

You are using the marquee, both thick and thin, as appropriate? You know about the "Look To" command? You have an appropriate mouse or track pad that is set up properly? You have read the manual?

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the words. I'm really surprised that you would not have experienced this. As I mentioned it seems to happen mostly when something is selected. I do not use the specific orbit button or key. I'm using the mouse wheel + shift key combination or a tablet + shift. I don't use walk around, just free moving with the orbit, panning and zooming combination.

The marquee does help as it reduces the size of the model that AC is trying to spin. But it still happens with marquee areas too. And this shouldn't really have to be done to workaround the issue. I don't use the look to command. I'm aware of it but I'd still rather the freedom to move with just the mouse + key combination. It becomes second nature and can be done without thinking. Having to move the mouse to pinpoint a command puts a speed hump in the process.

My competency in both SU and AC is equivalent. It takes a few moments to switch the brain when jumping in and out of each. The mouse + key combination is opposite.

This isn't a new thing, I've found it to happen for the last few years since I've been using it.

[Barry Kelly]

In Perspective view with nothing selected it rotates around a point at the centre of your screen if a part of you model appears there.
If the model is off to the side (i.e. centre of screen is blank) then it will rotate around the centre of the model.

If you select something in 3D then it seems to rotate around the centre of the entire model regardless of what is selected of whether it is in the centre of the screen or not.

Personally I rarely use perspective to view a model (unless I need a perspective view).
I find that the Axonometric view is much easier to navigate around in regardless of whether you have anything selected or not.

But I guess you prefer what you get used to.

Barry.

[Erich]

Since you did not mention it, I will repeat the question, you know about the "Look To" command? It might help your situation. More than likely you will need to add it to your work environment.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Barry, your explanation sounds about right. So it isn't just me! And yes, I've resorted to switching to axonometric at times to avoid the issue but this is still avoiding the problem. If it can function more predictably in axonometric then this behaviour should also be possible in perspective.

Side thoughts - Agree it's personal how one works but I would advise anyone to utilise perspective for constant design feedback. This is the beauty of 3D. The eye can pick up views/moments that would otherwise be missed in traditional plans, sections or false perspective such as axonometric.

I think if we are to design better spaces we should be aiming for a tool that simulates the real world as close as possible. Surely as computers become more powerful we'll have real time lighting, more accurate materials, physics etc. Maybe there is a point of view difference in that some people see/use AC mainly as a documentation tool whereas others hope to use it for design and dream of more clarity in design feedback.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Erich, I don't use that function and it doesn't really help. It involves pinpointing the command on a toolbar, clicking, then clicking again. That doesn't sound like much but it's distracting because you have to focus your brain to hit the command. Using the combination of mouse wheel (pan) + shift (orbit) + scroll is second nature once a person is used to it. It's like driving or changing lanes in a car. The process is automatic, - check mirror, finger extends out, flick lever, move wheel. You don't even have to think about it because the muscle memory is trained. You don't have to look down at any keys because one hand can feel the shift key and the other can feel the mouse. Because of that the brain is left to be completely absorbed in the simulated world in front of the eyes.

[Anonymous]

Back to this again. Barry's comments are about right - In perspective view, when something is selected it rotates around the whole model. I don't think this behaviour is correct.

Example - I'm in perspective view, in the middle of a square room with the viewpoint around eye height. The kitchen is approx 5 x 5m and I'm orbiting around using the mouse scroll wheel depressed combined with the shift key to pan. With nothing selected, and using this key combination (with shift on and off) I'm able to turn my view 180º. Great, this works well! BUT, the problem comes when I select something. Lets say there's a shelf on one side of the room at 1200H and I want to lower the shelf by referencing the height of something behind me. So I select the shelf and go to use the mouse/key combination to spin around and reference the item behind me. All of a sudden, the orbiting behaviour that I'm expecting does not occur. This is where the frustration is and I believe incorrect behaviour. Why does AC need to change the rotation point? The previous behaviour was just fine!

So because of that I'm forced to deselect, zoom out to see both items at once - this is not always possible, so it then means either jumping into another view (breaking the mind flow) or using the eye dropper (won't work if the items aren't the same) or going into a settings box and maybe having to use maths (mind flow molasses!)

The short of it is - the orbiting behaviour should be the same whether something is selected or not.

The behaviour that seems most intuitive and the one I posit should be adopted by AC full-time is the one when something is not selected.

Hope that makes sense, hard to put into words. Thanks

[Erika Epstein]

Matt wrote:
it's distracting because you have to focus your brain