!Restored: Keynotes

[Erika Epstein]

I would like a keynote system.

Roughly I see it as some combination of the label tool with a text editor.

1. I could optionally display its alphanumeric key and/or the description text.
2. Rearranging the order of a sheet's notes would automatically update the placed keynotes [within that layer combination].
3. It could be connected to one's specifications. (with hyperlinks too)
4. One could have a master keynote list for an entire project
5. One could have separate keynotes by sheet type i.e floor plan, RCP, etc aka the layer combination.
6. It would be a part of the file data that can be extruded from one's model.
7. It would be user friendly.

Other?

[Anonymous]

"Erika Epstein" wrote:
I would like a keynote system.

Roughly I see it as some combination of the label tool with a text editor.

1. I could optionally display its alphanumeric key and/or the description text.
...quote]

Erika,
I strongly agree that we need some sort of keynote interface. ArchiCAD's various label types and automatic labeling of entities per type is a good start but IMHO not very user friendly.

We need a simple label type that links to a text file or another master object that could contain a "user" updateable note legend. The simple label could always be aware of any changes to the "master" legend so that it would be properly and "automatically" adjusted in all instances of the placed keynote.

I'm attaching a screen shot of a test object I've been playing with to study the concept. This object does not read from a text file but instead has notes hard-coded as a value list in the script. The object kinda' does what you're suggesting in point 1. It can display individual alphanumeric labels and/or display a full legend as well.

You'll also notice that I have tried to include custom notes as well - Its sort of a hard-coded and user modifiable object. I'm sure the picture doesn't really fully describe the concept or fully frame the problem, but hopefully Graphisoft will look into giving us this functionality in the near future.

[Richard Morrison]

Have you looked into this product?

http://www.objectsonline.com/arc/Detail.tpl?DB_Title=AutoKeyNotes&DB_SKU=A01973

[Anonymous]

Richard wrote:
Have you looked into this product?

http://www.objectsonline.com/arc/Detail.tpl?DB_Title=AutoKeyNotes&DB_SKU=A01973

Richard,
Yes, I did look at this solution a while back. For the most part it seems to offer the functionality I've described in my previous post.

I must admit I haven't actually used it - I seem to remember thinking that, while it's a creative solution, it seems to require more steps to use and keep your notes "updated" than I would like. Personally, if I have to update my element list(s) each time I choose to add or change a particular note on any given plan or elevation window I might just as well place my notes manually.

With all that said, I can't say this is a fair evaluation of the product - I guess I just need to purchase it, play with it, and see for myself. Now that I'm thinking about it again, I may have an idea of how to use it with one master element list rather than generating multiple lists reporting only the placed instances.

Finally, I still believe a keynote function is a good wish/candidate to be a standard feature in ArchiCAD. Its a very commonly used notation technique and should be a standard feature in a robust CAD package like ArchiCAD.

If anyone hase used the"AutoKeyNote" object Richard has mentioned above, please let us know your thoughts about how effective it is in solving this issue.

Thanks,
Dan K

[Karl Ottenstein]

Erika asked me about this a while back and I hadn't given it much thought since (sorry, Erika!). The AutoKeyNotes object suggests a possible solution, but brings up a big stumbling block as well.

The (way too fast) GIF animation of the AutoKeyNotes object on OOL, shows that the keynotes are fixed in order and ID number, and that just the keynotes that you use appear in the list. Gaps in numbers would not follow some office's standards (but fixed numbers may well follow the standards of others).

It seems to me that the Interactive Scheduler (here I go again), can produce a keynote list if the keynotes are flagged by a particular marker object. (Select all elements - or markers - in a particular drawing, then invoke IS and only those markers will be included in the keynote schedule that would then be placed adjacent to the drawing.) The EIDM can be used to renumber all markers to a consistent and continguous order, if that's what an office requires, but otherwise the key code associated with the keynote would be used. The keynotes themselves would have to be entered into a text file (Excel, Word) and a master GDL object would read them perhaps. (Trying to avoid API, and typing fixed keynotes into a GDL object.)

The part to which I see no solution at present is this: I assume that most of you would have one keynote block per layout sheet, with those notes refering to all drawings on that sheet? With only one drawing (say a floor plan) on a sheet, no problem: I.S. as above (or fancy footwork with GDL and auxiliary text files). With more than one drawing on a layout in PM, we're stuck if we want only one keynote block since there's no way to filter objects from different views into a single schedule (without API).

Maybe there's another way? But, if not, this stumbling block suggests another benefit of integrating PM with AC so that such things can be done ... or for GS (or a 3rd party API person) to provide such a tool.

Karl

[Anonymous]

Karl,
I’m glad you “chimed-in” on this one…your perspective is always very informative.

Karl wrote:
… The keynotes themselves would have to be entered into a text file (Excel, Word) and a master GDL object would read them perhaps. (Trying to avoid API, and typing fixed keynotes into a GDL object.)
Karl

Maybe we don’t even need to go the interactive scheduler route…A “note” object linked to a “Master GDL object” and/or a text file would seem to be the simplest most straight-forward solution. I would explore this route further myself – kinda already have in the object screen shot I posted previously, but I don’t fully grasp how Master GDL objects and/or Text I/O works.

It would be awesome if we could get a GDL Guru (hint, hint Mr. DNC) to post some sample scripting/info illustrating this concept for keynotes. Something like a “note” object with a value list for notes: 1,2,3 and a “master note” object/text file that would link specific notes to the respective value list note number. The note object itself should contain a parameter toggle to place individual notes or a full legend of notes (please refer to the “keynote2.jpg” in my previous post.)

As far as listing only the notes present in a given drawing, I’m not sure that’s absolutely necessary. If we could just have editable .txt files for different note groups that always display the “full” note list that would probably still be OK. Using “full” note legends would allow you to have the “…one keynote block per layout sheet…” that you referred to. I could see having different .txt files like: PlanNotes.txt, ElevNote.txt, StrucNotes.txt loaded in the Library for the various type of plans they would be used on. If I could just edit these .txt files and be assured that my edits always properly automatically updated previously placed notes, I would be soooooo happy!

In closing I just want to reiterate that we need a simple& elegant solution…Something that doesn’t require a lot of set up or multiple processes to implement. FYI, I took a closer look at the “AutoKeynote.gsm” Richard mentioned… and noticed that it doesn’t allow you to generate the required element lists from sect/elev windows…the suggested process was to copy all the placed notes from those windows to a plan window to generate the list…As interesting as the AutoKeyNote.gsm looks, I believe it requires too much work for a such a simple process like adding notes to your drawings.

Thanks,
Dan K

[Karl Ottenstein]

Thanks for your kind words, Dan.

Dan wrote:
Maybe we don’t even need to go the interactive scheduler route…

Perhaps not, but the I.S. is good at several things that are required here: (1) grouping identical elements to prevent duplication [only want one entry for each unique note regardless of how many callouts there are], (2) sorting, and (3) formatting. To the extent that I.S. could eliminate the programming involved in these tasks in a GDL object using text I/O, it could be worthwhile. An option to think about in any case. 😉

Karl

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine a good Keynote feature that can't work in Sec/Elev and detail windows. The IS routines only work in plan and so would only provide a partial solution to the keynote problem.

[Karl Ottenstein]

John wrote:
I can't imagine a good Keynote feature that can't work in Sec/Elev and detail windows. The IS routines only work in plan and so would only provide a partial solution to the keynote problem.

Good point. One of the many valid complaints about I.S. This is a long-standing wish, that has not yet been granted in 9.0

Karl

[fuzzytnth3]

Dan wrote:

Richard wrote:
Have you looked into this product?

http://www.objectsonline.com/arc/Detail.tpl?DB_Title=AutoKeyNotes&DB_SKU=A01973

If anyone hase used the"AutoKeyNote" object Richard has mentioned above, please let us know your thoughts about how effective it is in solving this issue.

Thanks,
Dan K

I use this object and had to tweak it a bit to fit in with the particular office's system I was producing drawings for. While it was intended for simple legends and the like I found I could use it for detailed Schedules of Works.

I did come across problems with the automatic formatting of the text as you have to remember to type in the correct number of returns at the end of a note. This is mentioned in the Keynote manual and appears to be a glitch in ArchiCAD

There is also a limit to how many characters it will automatically format once this limit is hit (I think it was more than 256 characters) it either causes ArchiCAD to crash or just ignores the note. The solution I found was to type in manual end of line returns at about the same size as the database window.

An alternative way to get the spec notes in was to use BBedit or similar to edit the Keynote text file. But you do need to watch out for your line return problems as mentioned above. One other thing don't edit the text file and be in the same ArchiCAD drawing as ArchiCAD will overwrite your data and you will loose everything, I learnt the hard way

The Keynote object uses either symbols, CSI, Three digit and a couple of others. To comply with an office standard I added a single character to the Three digit version. The way I'm using it isn't really what it was intended for but I have found it suits me as I have all the specifications to hand right inside ArchiCAD $65 well spent

Finally...

It works in the Section window as well but to pickup the refernces you need to copy them back to the 2d plan.

To get round having to remeber to do this I publish my sections as modules and x-ref em back into the 2d plan on a empty storey and all the keynotes there. I then use another empty storey for the Keynote produced Schedule of Works