Sketch Render Elevations

[Anonymous]

I am looking for a way to create elevations that look similar to hand sketched drawings from within ArchiCAD. If possible I would like to also be able to add colors to these elevations. For the colors my preference would be to have the colors look like colored pencil or watercolor washes. As many of my interior finishes and detailing are based on these drawings it is important that I be able to easily update and distribute them. Besides that I find that my clients find it easier to understand and get excited about a hand drawing (or at least something that looks like it) versus a computer, hard line drawing.

I searched the archiCAD Talk forum but only found older posts with complex work arounds and a sugestion to look at ArchiSketchy. I'm not real interested in the complex workaround. I am trying to move away from complex computer operations so we can focus more on architecture. ArchiSketchy looks OK but I wanted to ask if it 2D sketches are possible right from within ArchiCAD 11. It makes sense to me that there should be some native way to do this right from within ArchiCAD. Please let me know if there is a native way to create elevations that look hand drawin right from within ArchiCAD 11.

It is pretty quick for me just to hand draw and color interior elevations by tracing over the elevations generated in ArchiCAD. The problem is distributing those drawings to my clients and the trades people who are bidding on and doing the work. The colored scan images are pretty big files whether I send them to my clients and the contractors as PDFs or as placed images in my ArchiCAD drawing set. This is why I would like to know if there would be an easy way for to create these hand drawn looking elevations right in ArchiCAD. I'm thinking that generating the drawings in ArchiCAD would be faster to create and update as well as be a smaller file that is easier to distrubute and update than a hand drawn set of elevations.

I would be interested in hearing what solutions and ideas are out there.

Thank you,
John

[Anonymous]

Samovar wrote:
Even vanilla AutoCAD has a free plugin for subscribers to produce quick sketchy rendered plans and elevations.

It's called impressions. Check out the design gallery:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=9246650

I know it's possible to do something similar in ArchiCAD with a bit of help from photoshop (or CorelDRAW), but how about something like a model-view option: easy to use straight out of the box.

Aloha Samovar,
Impressions looks very cool. Thank you for pointing it out. Now here is most of what I am looking for.

I'm just thinking how cool it would be to have this sort of easy 2D rendering right inside ArchiCAD so I could pop back and forth from the 2D sketch to the model and elevations. That would be ultimatly cool.

We are looking at Impressions right now. This is very exciting.

I think that this is something that Graphisoft needs to seriously look at.

In the mean time we are going to try Impressions. It looks like we may be doing our next project in... Don't make us do it Graphisoft. Please let us know if this is somehting that you would consider developing.
Thank you,
John

[Thomas Holm]

johncassel wrote:
In the mean time we are going to try Impressions. It looks like we may be doing our next project in...

Sorry, but I don't see the point. I checked the Impressions demo. Looks lika a very crippled version of Piranesi. You save a dwg line drawing from your model, then stylize and color it in various ways. There is absolutely no time saved from the procedures described earlier in this thread. The difference is that you exit your CAD application earlier than if you do a sketch and a LW color render in Archicad, and then combine them in Photoshop.

Using the Archicad+Photoshop method you can even set up presets, styles and materials, and then macros in Photoshop, so that almost all of the procedure is automated. And you don't lose the intelligence of the BIM application, which you do if you switch.

But if you want to do this in an external, excellent and Architect-oriented illustration package, take a serious look at Piranesi. To export to it, you just save from a 3D view in Archicad. Then you have all the tools of Impression + a lot more, like depth sensitivity.

[Anonymous]

Thomas wrote:

johncassel wrote:
In the mean time we are going to try Impressions. It looks like we may be doing our next project in...

Sorry, but I don't see the point. I checked the Impressions demo. Looks lika a very crippled version of Piranesi. You save a dwg line drawing from your model, then stylize and color it in various ways. There is absolutely no time saved from the procedures described earlier in this thread. The difference is that you exit your CAD application earlier than if you do a sketch and a LW color render in Archicad, and then combine them in Photoshop.

Using the Archicad+Photoshop method you can even set up presets, styles and materials, and then macros in Photoshop, so that almost all of the procedure is automated. And you don't lose the intelligence of the BIM application, which you do if you switch.

But if you want to do this in an external, excellent and Architect-oriented illustration package, take a serious look at Piranesi. To export to it, you just save from a 3D view in Archicad. Then you have all the tools of Impression + a lot more, like depth sensitivity.

Thomas,
Exactly my point. That is why I am asking for these 2D rendering features right within ArchiCAD. I want to spend my working time doing architectural design not CAD or rendering work. I hope you can understand that.

I do really appreciate the comparison between Piranesi and Impressions. Your comparison is very helpful.

That said I want to repeat that I am asking for these 2D rendering features right within ArchiCAD. I figure that if I say that enough times it will come true.
Thanks,
John

[Thomas Holm]

johncassel wrote:
That said I want to repeat that I am asking for these 2D rendering features right within ArchiCAD. I figure that if I say that enough times it will come true

I would guess not. Remember, "Impressions" is also an external program (even if it locks you into Autodesk's arrogant subscription policies).

The different solutions described here are so easy to manage, and the wishes so various and complex, that if I was GS I would just concentrate on the core issues and let third parties work on what they do better. Artlantis for example serves another illustration taste, and does it excellently. And I have problems imagining a practice without Photoshop or a similar photo editor.

GS just can't incorporate everything, and sometimes it's better to just allow a decent export option. It would be disastrous to dilute their limited development resources on things like this.

[Anonymous]

I think the model view options (MVO) is the best way of controlling how elements and objects appear in the view sets. It part of the battle-hardened logic of ArchiCAD. (I wish it had control over the appearance of the sections but that's another story).

If we can see a wall with or without separator lines and control the line-types for slabs and beams it should also be possible to control the appearance of lines and fills to make them appear sketchy. Once the view has been set up (in the office template of course) the workflow is nailed!

I know what some are thinking: "Lazy boy - buy Photoshop/Piranesi and learn how to use it." It's true this would be much more powerful and flexible, but it's power and flexibility I don't really need. A stripped-down, simplified (or crippled) version would do fine for most day to day work (just like the LW engine we have with no radiosity), and would sit more than happily within the logic of ArchiCAD's existing tools and systems.

I like a challenge (honest), but if you make my life easier -and my profits higher- I will love you faithfully.

[Anonymous]

Thomas wrote:
Artlantis for example serves another illustration taste, and does it excellently. And I have problems imagining a practice without Photoshop or a similar photo editor.

Thomas,
It sounds like you are used to and interested in illustration in a third party software for rendering. That is fine.

Please understand that is not what I am asking for.

I'm not talking about rendering a finished product. I asking for a design tool that can work the way I do. I'm designing architecture not graphic art. I want my design tools to work with me in the method that I design. In architecture we design with space, light, human interaction, building systems, color texture and many other aspects. I want to be able to model, draw and experiment with as many of those elements as possible right from within my ARCHITECTURE program.

Photoshop and those other programs are great graphic arts programs. There are many other threads on how to do great presentation renderings. I'm sure that you have added a lot of great input in those discussions.

What I am asking for is an architectural design tool not a graphics presentation tool.

All of that said, I'd better find some way to stay in your good graces because I am probably going to need your help the next time I have questions about creating presentation graphics.

John

[Rick Thompson]

There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home, unfortunately we're still in Kanas:) Great request though. I would think having something like this within AC, and automatically updating with model changes would be one of the more sought after upgrades GS could do. I have avoided all the external rendering options for many reasons, mainly they are time consuming. I would love it if you could develop "your" style in a template fashion, like Impressions seems to offer, and just have it there in every project. That would be great... floor plan, elevation and 3D.

This is a great wish. However, Rome wasn't built in a day, and AC still completely sucks at fundamental material take offs.. etc. So, I'm not expecting it. I would never change though... course I prefer a Mac, and AC is about it in that case. It is what it is, isn't it, and gets the job done wonderfully. So, more than half full.. 3/4's maybe:)

[Thomas Holm]

Rick wrote:
...I have avoided all the external rendering options...

Rick, with all due respect, that's not true. You previously wrote "I do the LW/sketch combined in PS method". Your method gives beautiful results, and is the one I'd recommend johncassel to use, but I regard it as external since you're using Photoshop. AND it's so easy I think GS should use their resources on other things.

Like the material take-offs you mention. A better 3D engine, allowing freer forms, better terrain tools, easier true plan cut views, multiple freely rotated cut views etc. And a (preferebly Sketchup-like) integrated graphical GDL object creator/editor. Better 3D DWG and Sketchup component import options. Hierarchical hotlink layer management. Better memory utilisation, 64-bit addressing and multithreading everywhere possible etc. And Nemetschek co-ordination and consolidation! I regard these as core issues.

But of course, I wouldn't say no to a better utilisation of the OpenGL engine (did someone say shadows?) for fast 'sketchy' presentations. It's just that there are so many easy options for this already, and also so many differences in taste, that this project could easily swallow a large group of developers without really giving us that much more than we already have if we just raise our gaze a little.

And John, I appreciate that you want the one ring to rule them all. I'd like that too, if it were possible. But it is not. Autodesk doesn't have it either, even if they like to give that impression. And GS is already fighting a David vs. Goliat battle. I don't want them to divert anything from the core issues, if possible!

[Rick Thompson]

Rick, with all due respect, that's not true.

Caught

Funny, I didn't think of PS as external since I use it mostly for other work (web site stuff). I was meaning (in my head at least) Piranesi and Artlantis. More energy spent on renderings from GS is low on my list, but I just don't need it. I do need better listing from within AC. It's ridiculous to have to export info to format it. Then you loose all updating... it's absurd. It would be nice to have some easier floor plan rendering capabilities. Impressions seems impressive to me, and would be nice, but I agree, pretty low on the list.

[Anonymous]

Thomas wrote:
I appreciate that you want the one ring to rule them all. I'd like that too, if it were possible.

Precious... but it is possible. It is only not possible if we cannot vision it.

Check out the visions of Da Vinci and Verne that are now seamlessly in our daily lives.

I think that at this point it is different users asking for different things. Some of the things that you are asking for are low on my list.

For my work and many of the projects created with ArchICAD BIM is not even half way up the list. For us BIM integration is science fiction and not applicable for our comparatively small, custom design work.

Give me a cool design tool that puts the creativity of my hand sketches into software that can integrate them with 3D modeling capabilities--that's Precious.

That sound is the future surging forward. I hope and think that we can both get what we want.

Cheers,
John