XREF Management function is killin' me!

[Link]

What is the go with the new XREF Management function??!

I hadn't had the need to play with it much in 8 or 8.1, but it seems vastly different than in 7. And for the worse. These may be new features (and if so please enlighten me), but they seem more like bugs to me, and go against the very nature they were designed for:

In 7 if we detached an XREF, it would get rid of all the layers that the XREF brought in with it. That was great! This doesn't seem to be the case in 8 or 8.1 (build 1290).

In 7 we couldn't alter an XREF, which proved as a safeguard IMHO. In 8 and 8.1 we can edit them willy-nilly, which not only seems undesirable, but dangerous. Lets say you inadvertantly delete the layers the XREF sits on. Naturally the XREF disappears, and to get it back you would think a reload will do the trick. Alas it wil only report an error. But if you delete a few elements from the XREF a reload will bring them back. Inconsistent, no? We really need to get the strict AC7 ways back into effect I think.

And I don't get the point of the Smart Merge. Why would we need this, if we can just replace & update the XREF and then reload it? All the new information will come in, right? So is the only benefit of a Smart Merge to have newly created items placed on a new layer? I don't get it.

I am supposed to explain the XREF Management to a group of 20 people tonight! Time to panic.............

Cheers,
Link.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Link wrote:
seem to be the case in 8 or 8.1 (build 1290).

Hi Link,

It would be less confusing to others if you don't post information relating to pre-release builds (1290). Better that people are apples to apples with R1/V1, yah?

But, that said...I just confirmed that the problem you're talking about does exist still in 8.1 R1 - and agree that it is stupid that we have to manually delete layers, etc.

Don't forget: wishlist@graphisoft.hu is still the address for wishes that we want 'logged'... also cc tech support on this one IMHO.

Cheers,
Karl

PS Added this via edit: Laci from GS today posted that they will be monitoring the "Wishes" forum here and that we do not need to post to the email address above if someone posts a wish there.

[__archiben]

and have you tried it in a full teamworked condition: arrrgghhh!!!

at least they sorted out the problem whereby the x-refs all come into one story regardless of which story you are on when you attach them . . . but haven't quite sorted it out for a 'reload' when they all revert to the same story.

i haven't had the problem of being able to actually edit x-ref data, although i do know that i can delete layers.

i have submitted a few bug reports to through the 8.1 beta reporting system, and will try out a few more of your problems to see if they need reporting as well.

i started a 'wishes' post regarding layers and x-refs that has generated a little bit of discussion. FYI.

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=126

~/archiben

[Thomas Holm]

It sounds dangerous to be able to edit an XREF, since it might be attached to more than one file.

Is this behavior in any way dependant on HOW the xrefs are linked?

Attach - is a closer link. All nested XREFs come in too, as well as layers, while

Overlay - is a link to a truly external file. With this link, in my view you should not be able to edit the XREF unless you open it ffor editing first. And I also think this kind of link should not bring in the layers of the external file, and when detached, no trace of it should be left.

An issue here may be the fact that Archicad caches a copy of the XREF in the master file, regardless of link method. If the programmers don't keep them protected, it's easy to start editing the cached copy. What happens then?

How does Archicad8.1's XREF handling differ from Autocad? (and I only want release version info).

Thomas

[Link]

It sounds dangerous to be able to edit an XREF, since it might be attached to more than one file.

I agree! I believe an XREF should remain completely uneditable. Or they should at least be by default, unless the user specifically chooses to make them editable during import. ~Most~ users want to have them as references, in my experience.

Is this behavior in any way dependant on HOW the xrefs are linked?

It doesn't appear to be. The effects I described originally will occur using overlay or attach.

How does Archicad8.1's XREF handling differ from Autocad? (and I only want release version info).

ohhhh, just a few more bugs AFAICS

I hope this issue is addressed before the next release!

Cheers,
Link.

[__archiben]

Thomas wrote:
Overlay - is a link to a truly external file. With this link, in my view you should not be able to edit the XREF unless you open it ffor editing first. And I also think this kind of link should not bring in the layers of the external file, and when detached, no trace of it should be left.

except 'overlay' still asks for you to find the nested x-refs if it can't find them itself . . .

and for what it's worth, i completely agree:
x-ref elements and layers should be locked and completely unavailable to work in and edit unless the file has been consciously opened in its own right. it is dangerous to be able to inadvertantly change a consultants drawing, as it is also dangerous to draw by mistake on an x-ref layer that can (or at least should when the bug's fixed) be deleted when the x-ref is detached.

~/archiben