Detailing & Annotating Workflow

[Sloan Springer]

Hello! I'm making my way back to ArchiCAD after 10 years in Revit...I've got one small project in construction (was a very minimal CD set for a small house) and am currently in CDs on an extensive set for a large residential project. So far, I've generally picked things back up quickly (I only ever used ArchiCAD in school, though, never on real work), and for the most part, am very happy with making the switch.

Among a few others, the area of detailing still continues to be a struggle. In Revit, I'm used to fully live, information-laden views that then get refined with 2D components and additional information, but remain largely model-based. Any element in the detail is still seen as that element, and can be tagged, keynoted, etc. If this element changes, so do all the associated notes automatically (same goes for 2D components).

So far as I understand it, ArchiCAD stops being a BIM software as soon as you create a detail callout...everything gets flattened to 2D linework and fills, "dumb" with no information retained from the model, and in the event of a change, you must manually rebuild the view and therefore lose large portions of work/modifications made previously. All text in a detail is "dumb" text, not pulling any information from the model, with the exception of labeling building materials or some of the very sparse objects from the detailer library. Even so, if I wanted to globally change a note or object, it is not possible.

Am I missing something? Is there a better way to create details without essentially turning ArchiCAD back into AutoCAD? Obviously, the more well-modeled a project is, the better the starting point for a detail becomes, but the process of annotating seems to be simply archaic.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

[Anonymous]

Hello, have you tried catching up with the reference guide under 3d document? Perhaps utub 3d detail in archicad? Good luck!

[Erwin Edel]

We keep our detail texts in Project info, so while there is no link with the model directly for annotation, there is linked annotation among the details showing the same elements.

Actual details are indeed made up of objects, fills and lines. Then again, they are showing things that I would not model to begin with (vapor barriers, nails, screws, interior trim, etc).

We do not use the detail markers to generate any information, but just make unlinked details and use trace and reference to get going. We then place linked markers to the unlinked details where needed on plans, sections and elevations. Why? One simple reason: an accidental rebuild of the detail can completely 'destroy' any changes you've made to the original 2D fills and lines you started with.

[Sloan Springer]

xacto wrote:
Hello, have you tried catching up with the reference guide under 3d document? Perhaps utub 3d detail in archicad? Good luck!

Definitely planning to give these a try...I'd love to eventually replace 2D detail drawings with 3D views, anyways!

[Sloan Springer]

Erwin wrote:
We keep our detail texts in Project info, so while there is no link with the model directly for annotation, there is linked annotation among the details showing the same elements.

Actual details are indeed made up of objects, fills and lines. Then again, they are showing things that I would not model to begin with (vapor barriers, nails, screws, interior trim, etc).

We do not use the detail markers to generate any information, but just make unlinked details and use trace and reference to get going. We then place linked markers to the unlinked details where needed on plans, sections and elevations. Why? One simple reason: an accidental rebuild of the detail can completely 'destroy' any changes you've made to the original 2D fills and lines you started with.

Thanks! I like the idea of keeping the actual details separate and coordinating via trace reference...that is one thing I worry about, just how easily a detail could be wrecked, yet changes are inevitable.

I'm not sure I follow regarding detail text in Project Info and linked annotation...could you share more?

Where I'm really running into issues is with things that don't get modeled, as you mentioned. I assume many of these are created as 2D objects (BTW, do you typically create these yourself for typically used items, or is there a good place online to grab others? I know how to create static objects, but have no GDL experience to make them parametric at all). The issue is if I want to change a note (or even swap out an object), I have to manually re-type the note or change the object in every individual instance it occurs. So if I wanted to revise a note about a masonry anchor, or metal panel clip, etc, that might occur in 10+ different details, I have to do it one by one.

[Erwin Edel]

Regarding project info: you can place autotext (linked text fields), so we have autotext entries there to list the different build up of elements (masonry, air space, insulation, concrete, plaster, etc), so if something changes the same referenced element can be automatically changed in terms of annotation over multiple details.

For repeating elements in details that are put together in the same way, you can use hotlinked modules.

For individual more detailed elements like masonry, window frames, glass panes, etc we have generic objects that are part of our local subscription library for the most part. I assume more localisations have this.

For manufacturer specific parts I sometimes import DWG drawings and use them to make my own objects.

[Erwin Edel]

Another thing to note about the 'broken' link between live model and 2D details: it is very easy to copy / paste details or part of details from previous work or office standards. If you would derive everything from the model for each new project, you are endlessly starting over with annotation, clean up etc.

I also find that the things I do model are ussually very quick to set up in the details too. It's the connections of finer elements and working out coldbridge problems and what not that don't really happen so much in the model as in the detail that take time.

As a rule of thumb we set about 4 hours of work max. for a good detail when budgetting a project.

[Sloan Springer]

Thats really helpful, much appreciated! I think between setting up some of the more common repeating notes in project info, having building materials primed with notes, and building up a decent library of typical 2d components, also pre-noted, then I can at least have a decent workflow for producing details realtively quickly.

I'm also taking a look at Cadimage Keynotes as another way to help standardize and maintain notes across details...seems promising. Will also definitely take a look at 3D Documents for detail views, and I also thought of setting up a separate section favorite with a layer that is typically hidden to generate larger scale section views in lieu of the detal callout tool. Then link to those with typical callouts. This way I can maintain the information of the elements in the detail, and overlay any 2D items as needed. This would, in effect, operate similarly to how a Revit model detail is.

However, I definitely also appreciate the ability to copy/pase any detail for reuse in other projects...it's one issue we often had in Revit when detailing too much from the model. Keeping details as their own independent views with trace underlays from the model is a nice way to maintain relevany between a detail and the model, but still being able to use that info again elsewhere.

Many thanks for your input! There is always growing pains when moving to new software and workflows, but I'm confident once I re-map my brain away from Revit then things will coninue to evolve for the better.

[Erwin Edel]

You may have glossed over it, but I also mentioned hotlinked modules, which allow you to group elements (including text and labels) and save them to a module file that you can place around your project. A bit like components in sketchup or blocks in autocad (sorry no experience with Revit, but they probably have something similar too). So if you have repeating elements, you can save a module, place that in several details and if you need to change something, it will change in all placed instances.

In smaller projects we hardly use these, but large projects of multiple appartments, for example, this can be handy for those details where only small bits change.

Regarding keeping some annotation in the Project Info: we keep some typical fields in our template (facade, ground floor, roof, etc), since copy pasting labels with autotext doesn't copy the contents of the autotext over and you might end up with empty fields if there is no link to re-establish in a new project. This is getting in to advanced stuff however if you are just starting out.

[Sloan Springer]

Unfortunately I’m on the solo version, so no hotlinks. Definitely worth another look to see if I should upgrade for them.