Archicad 15 new features on youtube.

[Anonymous]

Here's some youtube clips on Archicad 15 new features.

http://emuarchitects.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/archicad-15-new-features/

[Bricklyne Clarence]

strawbale23 wrote:

Karl wrote:

strawbale23 wrote:
2d lines in the 3D window! being able to draw 2d guidelines in 3d space would be very useful and probably not hard to implement

Look for this in 15. Guidelines, grid, and more make working in the 3D window easier than ever.

But are these guidelines tied to the grid? You cannot draw various 2d lines in the 3D window with out the grid as far as I can see, you are tied to one plane/grid.

Or do the guidlines stay in 3D space even when you move the grid?

Like I say, need to hold off judgement till I try the demo and see how it works

Archicad is a very good product, I just wonder where they get these developement ideas??

Ive been following the forum for years now,I never seen anyone ask for these kind of tools. could be wrong. Id be interested to see a link to any thread that discuses implementing such a grid tool

You have to make a distinction between guidelines and actual 2D lines.

Guidelines only allow you to make reference points and snap points while working in the 2D windows (plan, section, elevation).
Unlike actual 2D lines they cannot be used to create 3D geometry, for documentation and are not permanent like 2D lines (meaning, they don't show up in your drawing sheets.).
You also can't have Guideline polylines, you can't copy, offset, or do any of the usual functions you can with regular 2D lines.

As far as I can tell from the videos, guidelines in 3D windows are the only thing that have been added to AC 15 and not actual 2D lines (drafting/documentation) lines.

As far as Graphisoft's priorities when it comes to implementing new tools in new versions, nobody really knows what goes through their minds in their reasoning and choosing what to develop and improve over others.
For the most part, what they choose never seems to be what the majority of users tend to be asking for.
Like for example in this version they seem to have focused on modeling tools (such as the shell tool) and which admittedly a lot of people have been asking them to improve, and which would also explain why they did things like grid and guidelines in 3D windows since those seem to help when modeling in the 3d Window.
But at the same time they also seem to have focused a lot on things like the Roof tool which frankly speaking, a lot of people were not asking for improvements on. You can even check the wishlist sections and you'll still not get the sense that a lot of people wanted the Roof tool improved upon over, say, the Stair tool, which everybody and their cousin is always complaining about.

And yet they always do this in every single version.
In the most recent version before this one, it was shadows in 3D windows.
While appreciated, this wasn't a great necessity for most people, especially given the fact that the way they implemented them the shadows not even real-time or live shadows (the program has to re-calculate every time you move or navigate around the 3D Window and in doing so the shadows disappear every-time you move around) like you have in programs like SketchUp.

And in the versions before that it was the Curtain wall tool.
Again, great tool, but not really that high on the list of priorities for most people working with this program. And then you had better 2D representation of stairs in the plans (as opposed to improving the actual means to model those stairs themselves) and the list goes on and on and on....


If only they would actually listen to their users every now and then and even maybe actually engage them in these forums like they once used to not too long ago, and find out exactly what really needs doing, they would really save themselves a lot of meandering development efforts, and us a lot of angst.
(and by "listen to their users", I don't mean only listening and communicating with beta-testers and the select few who are lucky enough to be close to the hallowed inner circle)

I understand the old reasoning and argument that they don't have a lot of resources (developers, money etc) and so have to be careful and economical in how they choose to develop the program.

But fact of the matter is that they don't do themselves any favours nor lend that argument any credence when they then go off on a tangent and spend whatever little resources they might claim to actually have and need to prioritize (in addition to the little and limited time they have between versions) - by developing tools that not a lot of people are asking them to improve, while continuing to ignore those that most users are perpetually asking them to improve.

[sinceV6]

GDL is indeed powerful. Very powerful. The logic and "smartness" of properly coded objects is just amazing. Code something right, with plenty of options, and you literally can get thousands of combinations with a single object/code. Revit doesn't come even close in this regard.

But then again... it is code. And I'll dare to say that IF you get the courage to do GDL, unless you do it all day long, everyday, you'll need to keep the GDL reference open side by side, because it's not a friendly language and the environment to develop the objects is not a friendly one either -syntax highlighting anyone? c'mon... even excel will give a hint of what part of the formula you're changing!!!-.

Since GDL is a big part of the underlying AC architecture (doors, windows, etc)... it'll be hard to get rid of it, so give it some attention.

The problem also relies in the core, because the current way to do things is to model in floor plan and THEN generate elevations/sections/model. And it was a good approach for several years. It's not anymore. The fact that in recent versions you can do this from the 3D window is a good thing; but the work paradigm will have to change completely. AC should derive floor plans, sections and elevations FROM the 3D model.

With the new shell tool, GS will try to make you use the 3D window more to model. This is actually a good thing. But it'll be years before the whole thing changes.

Still, with all this said, I love the way AC works. There are things Revit users shout with pride... I would also love'em, but when I see the real extents of the app, the more I fall in love with AC.

[Anonymous]

Bricklyne wrote:

strawbale23 wrote:

Karl wrote:
Look for this in 15. Guidelines, grid, and more make working in the 3D window easier than ever.

But are these guidelines tied to the grid? You cannot draw various 2d lines in the 3D window with out the grid as far as I can see, you are tied to one plane/grid.

Or do the guidlines stay in 3D space even when you move the grid?

Like I say, need to hold off judgement till I try the demo and see how it works

Archicad is a very good product, I just wonder where they get these developement ideas??

Ive been following the forum for years now,I never seen anyone ask for these kind of tools. could be wrong. Id be interested to see a link to any thread that discuses implementing such a grid tool

You have to make a distinction between guidelines and actual 2D lines.

For me guide lines and 2d lines are the same thing because I always use 2d lines for my guide lines, I never use the guidelines tool, dont like em. I use 2d lines as a draughting tool for laying out. It would be great to have the option to see and sketch using 2d lines for laying out in the 3d window

[Karl Ottenstein]

Yes, these are only guidelines, not permanent lines. Personally, I have not used a 2D actual-line for a guideline in 10 years. Just have not had a need for them - either the existing geometry offered the snap points I needed, or the guideline feature easily generated what I needed without concern that the 2D lines were out of date. Personal preference.

The 3D guidelines are pretty impressive - they can be anywhere in 3-space. If not actually in the 3D grid plane, they also project an additional guideline onto the grid which is very useful. The improved guidelines can be offset and more.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Bricklyne wrote:
But at the same time they also seem to have focused a lot on things like the Roof tool which frankly speaking, a lot of people were not asking for improvements on.

I agree of course that there are things like a better stair tool that have been needed far longer than other new features. But, the new features in 15 are in total pretty amazing.

While people have not asked for a new roof tool, it only makes sense that the roof tool be revised since the shell tool can also be used to make roof forms. Comparing the old, single plane roof tool to the shell tool's capabilities would soon make people ask why the roof tool was so dumb.

There is also the Henry Ford things of "If I gave people what they wanted, I would have given them a faster horse."

It is remarkable how many times I've seen projects with roof planes that just do not fit together consistently because things evolved from the preliminary design and DD and the intersections and overhangs were not kept clean. E.g.: roof pitch changed, and the ridge has bizarre lines in section.

The new roof tool lets you change the pitch, overhang, whatever of your whole roof system and all planes adapt. There are a few gotchas, but I think that both beginners and old-timers will appreciate the new functionality which recognizes a roof as an intelligent collection of related parts.

Again, I would guess that the revised roof tool came now just to be consistent with the shell tool...but I don't disagree that the ac-talk community has been asking for a lot of other things that we have not seen yet. There's a new feature or improvement for almost everyone in 15, though, unlike some versions that seemed to target only large or commercial firms.

Cheers,
Karl

[Anonymous]

sinceV6 wrote:
GDL is indeed powerful. Very powerful. The logic and "smartness" of properly coded objects is just amazing. Code something right, with plenty of options, and you literally can get thousands of combinations with a single object/code. Revit doesn't come even close in this regard.

But then again... it is code. And I'll dare to say that IF you get the courage to do GDL, unless you do it all day long, everyday, you'll need to keep the GDL reference open side by side, because it's not a friendly language and the environment to develop the objects is not a friendly one either -syntax highlighting anyone? c'mon... even excel will give a hint of what part of the formula you're changing!!!-.

Since GDL is a big part of the underlying AC architecture (doors, windows, etc)... it'll be hard to get rid of it, so give it some attention.
.

This is a great point, but without any experience in software programming, and some basic GDL skills, it seems the core is not so much the problem as it is the interface.
Since GDL can be automatically created from models, it seems incredibly feasible to me to create a GUI that lets you model and assign parameters to elements, then let AC write the GDL code.

all in all, I am excited about 15 as a stepping stone.
I see the new complex roof as stepping stone to meshes with a fixed thickness - seems the natural evolution/combination of these tools.
I am looking forward to the remodel/demo...etc feature... I need to see it in practice... but this has lots of potential ( especially for design options)


On the one hand I understand why we all wish many of these improvements are more complete, more thought out, on the other, I want them to actually work.... sometimes slow and steady wins the race.

However... hire some more programmers, and work these thing out faster!

[NCornia]

Bricklyne wrote:

As far as Graphisoft's priorities when it comes to implementing new tools in new versions, nobody really knows what goes through their minds in their reasoning and choosing what to develop and improve over others.
For the most part, what they choose never seems to be what the majority of users tend to be asking for.

...

If only they would actually listen to their users every now and then and even maybe actually engage them in these forums like they once used to not too long ago, and find out exactly what really needs doing, they would really save themselves a lot of meandering development efforts, and us a lot of angst.
(and by "listen to their users", I don't mean only listening and communicating with beta-testers and the select few who are lucky enough to be close to the hallowed inner circle)

One major issue I take about the thought that Graphisoft does not listen to the users in the forum is that the wishlist area, for the most part, is very weak in turnout. Have you thumbed through the lists of wishes to see the poll results? You would be amazed to see that more than a dozen people have voted on a given wish. I came across a wish the other day that had 27 votes and I thought, "Wow, a wish that people really care about!" And then I noticed the wish was over 6 or 7 years old. If only 27 people vote on a wish in 6 or 7 years that does not seem very compelling to me if I were developing the program.

I do not know how much weight this forum holds in Graphisoft's decision making, how much time they spend here or really the percentage of the entire Graphisoft user base that the regular posters (and irregular posters if you count Dwight ) here represent. My guess is that we represent a small minority, but nonetheless a very important minority as some of the most accomplished ArchiCAD users reside here I am sure. I also feel that posting things in an any online forum is not the most proactive way to get your voice heard anyway. I mean who comes here on a regular basis but the diehards? And don't get me wrong, I love it. I have become hooked over the past year to ArchiCAD and this forum and love all the posts and contributors. But in the end I know the forum is a small community and not necessarily the bull horn that is going to get the major attention from Graphisoft or the world at large.

But, if the wishlist area is in fact to matter then you should get as many people to vote as possible on each request. Use the most popular areas of the forum, such as "Working in ArchiCAD", which contains nearly a third of all posts on the entire forum, as a funnel to really push people to vote. Link and re-link to the wishlist as it applies to each post. If someone has a question about stairs, post a message that says, "By the way, to all reading this post, vote here '()' on this feature, your voice matters!"

Let's start now.

Get out the vote people. Encourage as many people as you know here to vote on this: http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=34537 it seems to be one of the most complained about issues I have seen, yet only 29 votes? (Actually its not bad considering the numbers on most wishes.) But out of 56,500+ registered users? No wonder it gets little notice. Let's get this puppy at least 50 votes if not 100 or 200. I would really like to see it.

Plus, get out of the forums and call Graphisoft, e-mail them, call your reseller. Take the frustration and do something (postitive) with it in addition to posting here. Any other ideas?

Note: Many that will read this and respond are long-time users who have a broader view of the situation. I know I am a green-horn, so please feel free to correct me if you think I am off-base, but let's try to keep things positive in terms of finding solutions instead of only complaining about the problems.

Hopelessly optimistic for the future of ArchiCAD.

Cheers!

[Anonymous]

I dont even bother going to the wish list anymore. I used to vote in the polls and put forward suggestions many years ago, when it becomes clear GS has its own developement ideas outside of the wishlist then I think a lot of people lose heart.

Archicad 15 looks interesting, looking forward to trying out the new shell tool to see the new possibilities it opens up. It makes sense to update and expand such an important tool.

[Anonymous]

http://www.simpleaddon.com/index.html

check out these great addons which will make your life easer in archicad
why GS dont do updates like this addons ? These are 29 $ and i think that every user of archicad sholud have them. How much $ is archicad update

check out copy, mirror in sections, workflow with layers, dimesions,win,door object placement etc all asked old wishes...so thats my only problem with GS, they simply dont read our wishes

these people extend core of archicad for 29 $, why GS team cant extend their core???


Im part of octane render beta comunity and its simple great there. We talk with developers respecting their work and time and they listen us what we need and how we need it. Its perfect . . .

[Bricklyne Clarence]

NCornia wrote:
.....
One major issue I take about the thought that Graphisoft does not listen to the users in the forum is that the wishlist area, for the most part, is very weak in turnout. .......

And why do you think that is?

You observed correctly that the wishlist sections have very low turn-out and participation rate among forum users, but you come to the wrong conclusion that that basically results in Graphisoft erroneously believing that users are not interested in having those wishes implemented.

If anything you have it completely backwards.
The reason there's low turn-out and why people don't seem interested in participating in the wishlist section is because they correctly believe that Graphisoft is indeed the one that is not interested in addressing their wishes or even engaging them on a very basic level of simply acknowledging those wishes or issues.

In fact it's something that your own observations have precisely confirmed when you stated that the one wish you came across that had relatively high numbers of users voting on it, was one that was actually 6 or 7 years old.
If you go back to the wishlist section and mine back to the wishes of that same time period you will observe that they used to be heavily frequented and participated in by users at that particular time because back then users truly believed that Graphisoft really did care to hear about what their users and their customers' issues were - a perception that was in fact actually validated by the fact that Graphisoft developers actually took part in the forum engaging in the forum and talking directly with people back then.
In fact I recently brought up a wishlist topic in another discussion from about that same time period (or it even might have been older at aroun 8 or 9 years ago - I'll try to see if I can find it again) where users where asking for specific improvements to the Stair tool which affected regional Building code requirements. In that particular discussion there was a Graphisot developer whom I believe was the head of product development who was really engaged and talking with the users, and it seemed like a very normal conversation you would have with a normal, friendly and approachable PR person who actually cared what you wanted and knew what to do to fix it.
Sadly, that particular developer is (coincidentally??) no longer with the firm as there seems to have been a cull on their end at around the same time when Graphisoft began withdrawing from communicating directly with users on this forum - which also incidentally coincided with the time the previous Graphisoft CEO Vincent Gallelo (sp?) left the firm, the time that Graphisoft was bought out by Nemschetek and there was a restructuring of their whole personnel set-up over there which left us, the users, with the short end of the stick.

The point I'm driving at in a long-winded way is that the reason that the Wishlist sections are so infrequently attended and participated in, is because more and more users have correctly bought into the belief that Graphisoft no longer care what they think. This is a perception that's supported both by Graphisoft's own reluctance to participate in this forum anymore, and also by how they choose to expend their development efforts and resources in what features they choose to develop in each new version.
So to try and use the fact that there's few users in the wishlist section in an attempt to justify the fact that they (GS) feel justified in not listening to users because they don't think users are themselves not interested, seems to me to be a byzantine exercise in circular reasoning and just a vicious cycle that allows them to go off in their own tangent and do their own thing and then feel justified in doing so and ignoring users in the first place.

The only thing that results from such a strategy in the long-term and from a PR and business-model perspective is that they lose more customers and users who stop using the software altogether (let alone just visiting this forum) as they justifiably believe that nobody who develops it cares what they think or to improve it to help make their work easier. And of course, that means less dineros for GS (money to spend on developers, R & D, PR and marketing (sorely needed here in North America), etc).
I mean, why spend my money on this software if I don't believe that it's not going to continue making my work easier and more efficient let alone pleasurable instead of banging my head against the wall to do the simplest task in the most rote complicated and repetitive method available?


It's a classic case of shooting yourself in the foot when all you need to do to stop is to talk and listen to other people - in particular, your own customers.