Reality check - Revit

[Anonymous]

I´m sure someone will tell me how wrong I am, but I just saw the funniest 6 minutes video ever:

http://cad-vs-bim.blogspot.com/2008/09/filter-this-selectively-selecting-in.html

Apparently, it takes all of 6 minutes to explain how you can do selective selection in Revit, something that we do in ArchiCAD in five seconds with Ctrl+F, Atl+click, "+", and then 5 more seconds to apply different pens.

Thank Thor for making me choose the right one

[Djordje]

Laura wrote:

Rikhardus wrote:
[..Layout in Revit is more integrated, Schedules are just another view in Revit..

...and how is this different from AC?

How is any of the listed different?

If anything, layouts, views, documentation management is something the Reviteers normally envy ArchiCAD users. Except for the revision handling.

[Anonymous]

Djordje wrote:

Laura wrote:

Rikhardus wrote:
[..Layout in Revit is more integrated, Schedules are just another view in Revit..

...and how is this different from AC?

How is any of the listed different?

If anything, layouts, views, documentation management is something the Reviteers normally envy ArchiCAD users. Except for the revision handling.

OK..Dear Laura Yanoviak and Djordje, I say Layout in Revit is more integrated, cause we have only a chance to put a view in layout and we can't double that view except of duplicate/copy it before, also we can edit that view directly in layout. When we rescale a view, text and dimension remain their measure..

Dimension in revit is live and can handle many task. You cannot replace a permanent dimension value with a numeric value. You will receive a message if you attempt to do so..

Schedules are just another view in Revit, cause we can edit, delete, change or show an object directly from a schedule.We can calculate many many value from a schedule..

Legends like another view, provide a way to display a list of the various building components and annotations used in a project.

Revit can handle revision schedule very well with information attached. We can put revision tag in revision cloud..We can put revision schedule in layout the way we want.

Ok..those are something I can write here for now..Hope that this information is usefull..

[Rob]

OK..Dear Laura Yanoviak and Djordje, I say Layout in Revit is more integrated,

I would say that layout in Revit is more rigid than integrated

cause we have only a chance to put a view in layout and we can't double that view except of duplicate/copy it before, also we can edit that view directly in layout.

in addition to this we can do drawings cutouts (holes) or any 2D geometry operations as if it was a polygon. Also we can just copy/paste drawing change its pens and scale, relink it to any other view etc without a big fuss. I think Revit is well behind in this area...

When we rescale a view, text and dimension remain their measure..

same in AC

Dimension in revit is live and can handle many task. You cannot replace a permanent dimension value with a numeric value. You will receive a message if you attempt to do so..

same in AC apart from some annoying dialog telling me what to do...

Schedules are just another view in Revit, cause we can edit, delete, change or show an object directly from a schedule.We can calculate many many value from a schedule..

same in AC. I do not understand why all Revit users think we do not have it... And yes again we can edit, delete, change and show object directly from a schedule And yes you can schedule all sorts of elements and you can format your schedule to whatever format you want to.

Legends like another view, provide a way to display a list of the various building components and annotations used in a project.

this is something that can be partially done in AC but we do not have ability to schedule eg. labels for creating keynotes etc.

Revit can handle revision schedule very well with information attached. We can put revision tag in revision cloud..We can put revision schedule in layout the way we want.

AC does not have it but as I know Revit tools are not fully compliant with at least AU, NZ, UK revisioning system so I am not missing much here.

[Anonymous]

Rob wrote:

Dimension in revit is live and can handle many task. You cannot replace a permanent dimension value with a numeric value. You will receive a message if you attempt to do so..

same in AC apart from some annoying dialog telling me what to do...

Ofcourse this is not the case. If you change a dimension of a wall, the wall does not change. The association is one way.

Generally AC lacks relationships (among other things, such as drawing and handling things in 3d)

[Rob]

Generally AC lacks relationships (among other things, such as drawing and handling things in 3d)

which is very questionable as I personally see this (not having relationships to a 'mechanical' degree) as the very important benefit of AC.

Revit way of thinking is more engineer-like approach where you work with given and almost absolute scenarios (eg. mechanical engineer typically works within already pretty much set structure). I appreciate that AC still allows for a bit of celotape-chewinggum-scrap book-pencil work because this is the way architects work. In fact this makes AC very suitable for this kind of work (and at least for me). All that relationship convoluted structure is rigid and constraining as opposed to a bit of 'fudging' if you will.

The architectural BIM model is never absolute (unless you are some kind of genius knowing exactly how it is going to be built to the last detail) until the post-construction phase kicks in, we are always working with some degree of loose information. And I believe that loose information left there deliberately needs to be handled easy and naturaly as a part of the common workflow which is not the case of Revit as you have to force it to act this way.

[Anonymous]

oreopoulos wrote:
Generally AC lacks relationships (among other things, such as drawing and handling things in 3d)

I agree with Rob that ArchiCAD's relative* lack of relationships compared to Revit is a good thing on the whole.

As I have become more proficient in Revit I find one of the most crucial things to learn is how to turn the relationships off. Yes it's handy when it does what I want but it is beyond annoying when it insists on doing things I don't want. In ArchiCAD I do have to tell it where I want things but they stay where I put them unless I explicitly move them. I know exactly what to expect and I like it that way.

I also agree with Rob that this is more consistent with an Architect's way of working. It seems to me more of an Engineer's fantasy that you can define a set of rules and the building will build itself. A large part of an Architect's job is to sort out the all the conflicting demands of all the various engineering requirements (which includes energy, access, egress, structure, etc...) all while trying to make something that is also beautiful and inspiring.

To the extent that Revit can make the Architect's life easier by taking care of the mundane rules based stuff I am a big fan, but I also find that it relies so heavily on these functions that it ends up lacking the subtlety, finesse and versatility available in ArchiCAD


* ArchiCAD has never entirely lacked relationships and has been steadily gaining them over the years, just as Revit has relaxed their once strict relationship model over time.

[Anonymous]

From my point of view, if i have a wall (3m long for example) and have a basin in the middle of the wall, and a bath tab next to it and some plummings and ...... If i want to make the wall 4m, i have to readjust everything.
Well i can use the marque tool, which actually aplies a rule (only one, and a linear one) but this is very limited.
Yes it is predictable, but doing nothing is also predictable.
So if in revit relationships are too restrictive, and you want sometimes to turn them off, this does not mean that there is not a better implementation of relationship. Relationships are great, not a panakea.

I did not see any comment on the lack of 3d Drawing capabilies of Archicad which i find AMAZING!!!!

[Anonymous]

oreopoulos wrote:
I did not see any comment on the lack of 3d Drawing capabilies of Archicad which i find AMAZING!!!!

If you mean working and editing elements in 3D, I find ArchiCAD quite superior in this respect.

If you mean the lack of freeform modeling tools, that is another matter .