cost estimates & BOQ

[Anonymous]

We would like to use the information in our models to provide a quick and accurate material cost estimate, for design feedback and to check builders quotes. I have read the posts here about this, most of them very old, and the resource below:

1 ac calculation guide
2 http://www.thompsonplans.com/files/TappingCalcMenu.pdf
3 from cad to quantity survey http://www.fc-cadlink.com/fccl-portail/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=114
4 http://www.jtburk.com/support/takeoff.PDF

There seems to be four methods to get cost estimates out of archicad:
A: list method as described in links above. Even though it is frustrating, this method would be ok, but its inaccurate as it does not calculate the SEOs (solid element operations) or intersection of elements.

B: use IS (interactive schedule) to get the areas, then export to excel and do cost calcs there. This works but it would be great to have something that is live, and less manual.

C: use ms access to connect to the archicad file using odbc driver. There is no odbc driver for mac, so can't try this.

D: Use archiquant. I think has the same problem as the list method, does not calculate SEO or intersections. Can anyone confirm this?

Questions
Is there any other way to do this that i havnt covered?
If option B is the only viable method, is there a way to automate this process?

[Karl Ottenstein]

hfs55 wrote:
B: use IS (interactive schedule) to get the areas, then export to excel and do cost calcs there. This works but it would be great to have something that is live, and less manual.

Unfortunately, even this non-live option does not give correct results as nothing - lists nor element schedules - will report the correct height of a column trimmed by a solid element operation. I had not tested this in 16 yet, and was hoping it was fixed, but sadly it still is not. Seeing this major flaw, I didn't spend any time testing all other elements to see which ones report correct scheduling values.

ArchiQuant uses the List Scheme technology, but with a friendlier interface.

The information obtained from the Windows ODBC driver will be no more accurate than what you can obtain within AC. E.g., column heights will not be correct if involved in SEOps. But, it does allow for live connection to an estimation database. The downside is that you would have to use the ID or some other field to distinguish how an element should be computed. At least with List / Components schemes, you can assign the desired material formulas per-element within AC.

I subtracted a hole from a slab via SEO and the List Scheme, ArchiQuant and Element Schedule (interactive) all reported the modified volume correctly. So, your asserting that SEO are not taken into account by the list method is not correct. Again, nothing calculates columns correctly - and I haven't tested beyond slab just now to break things down into which elements are computed correctly (SEO-wise) and which are not.

Karl

[Karl Ottenstein]

I hadn't played much with ArchiQuant until your question, so thanks for the excuse to explore a little.

It is interesting that while ArchiQuant seems very similar to the list schemes, that the components/formulas that you associate with an element in the ArchiQuant panel (added to each element's Tool Settings) are completely independent of the linked properties for ArchiCAD's built-in List schemes.

This means that you can potentially (not for any great reason I can think of at the moment) create one BOQ using a list scheme and another one using ArchiQuant. The attached associations are nonsense, but show the two panels.

[Anonymous]

Hi Karl

I didn't know IS had flaws as well, thankyou for this. I try not to rant, but a BIM program that you can't use schedules from is crazy.

That is interesting the the list method calculated the SEO hole int the slab and not the SEO on the column. To be honest I only checked SEO on walls, as that is what I use most, and that didn't calculate in lists but did in IS. Perhaps AC struggles with SEO calculations on vertical elements?

Re archiquant, I havnt tested it due to the SEO issue, but the main comment I have read about here (by thompson someone..) about its usability is that it only auto assigns to new elements. You have to manually assign to existing elements.

If only someone had the smarts to add simple calculation abilities to IS, this would be so easy! A long standing wish I believe.

I will try to set up an excell sheet that can collect the fills from composites exported by IS and do the calculation, at least this will be a bit automated and reduce manual error. And test each AC element to see if there are any other flaws.

[Anonymous]

Hi Karl

Just a little note on this.
I've only just (as of friday last week) switched to using component schedules for the exact reason of the the height issue.
I now have all walls and columns reporting their composite skin/component volume and composite skin thickness.
Then using some mathematical wizardry in excel get heights etc.
It doesn't work brilliantly if your columns are cut on an angle but when using brickwork as we are, it definitely gets close enough and most importantly works with SEO's