Properties and Classifications vs Listing

[Rick Thompson]

I am new from AC 20 to 25.  Providing detailed material list has been a vital part of my work. I have unfortunately discovered a bad bug (you can't link a composite to a property object) so support is suggesting I should go ahead and switch to Properties and Classifications for my needs, but, from what I see there is still no way to achieve what I can extract from Listing.  I am well aware GS is transitioning away from Listing, but after years there is still no other way to extract quantities like number of studs... LF plate etc.

So, has anyone achieved a detailed material list via Properties and Classifications like the attached pdf?  From my initial checking it out, I don't think so.  I'd love to be wrong and that it would be easy to incorporate into existing PLN's via the Migration assistant, but I don't think so.

Below is what I can get from basic Listing with an exterior wall by linking a property object (based on the data base).  It's also integrated into over 200 PLN's and the thought of reworked each one with a new system is a non-starter.  Listing needs to work despite it being decades since it has been updated, it still does the job.  I'll attach a typical material list I can easily generate via Listing.  Well, easy after years of setting things up.

            Location         Description                                    Quanity       Unit       

       1   Exterior walls   2x4 plate x 3                                      53.313   LF         

       1   Exterior walls   2x4-9 Hem fir Wd Stud, 16oc              17.771   Pieces     

       1   Exterior walls   Base exterior walls                              17.771   LF         

       1   Exterior walls   Drywall mud                                          0.136   5 Gal. Pail

       1   Exterior walls   Drywall tape 250' roll                           0.273   Roll       

       1   Exterior walls   FGlas insulation wall R-see chart       136.319   SF         

       1   Exterior walls   GWB 4'x'8'x1/2"                                      4.226   Sheet      

       1   Exterior walls   Paint - exterior                                       0.545   Gal        

       1   Exterior walls   Paint - exterior primer                             0.545   Gal        

       1   Exterior walls   Paint - interior                                         0.545   Gal        

       1   Exterior walls   Paint - interior primer                             0.545   Gal        

       1   Exterior walls   Sheathing 1/2"                                         4.226   Sheet      

       1   Exterior walls   Siding                                                    136.319   SF         

       1   Exterior walls   Tyvek Building Wrap                             136.319   SF

[poco2013 · Accepted solution]

Hmmmmmmm - It seems I dropped the ball on this one -- sorry about that-- But let me me tell you what I learned in my investigation

First of all, Classifications and Properties, can not be used as the basis for a material estimate. Graphisoft's access to data other than the C++API is way to limited. And yes, if you wanted to spend a lifetime programing and maintaining programing- you could make it work, except that no one but you would understand it. Not practical.

Contrabim's approach strongly relies on area estimates, which is generally accepted in the building trade, but also has limits and many pitfalls This approach is generally used with caution only if you have a good history.

Your use of property objects is not, per se, a bad approach except it is no longer maintained by Graphisoft and the primary problem was again the lack of easy complete data access. 

Why all this -- Simply, Archicad is not a estimating program and never will be. They seem to have no interest in providing the tools to allow others to use it for that purpose. Since Graphisoft's target user, now, appears to be the large Architect/Builders. And they have their own estimators and are very suspicious of estimating software

I still believe that a open data feature to allow complete data access would permit Python scripts and perhaps some builtin JSON databases would solve the roadblocks ----- But not likely to happen. There is "no magic bullet" and the secret is to have a versatile system which allows one to target  specific areas of interest with the means of access and display.

IOW -- no solution -- just IMNSHO.

BTW -- it seems that all the good work in this area is being done now outside of Graphisoft and I  expect they may be left behind -- made some very bad bets

[Rick Thompson]

Thanks Gerry for taking the time to comment on this.  "Sad but true", as my mother would say waking me up in the mornings.  All I can do is hope some of the effort to get this clear will help GS to blablabla.... There seems to be a big gap between reality and what GS claims.  I was pleased the tech support person who helped me was clear that despite the claims, AC has gone backwards in this function.  It's hard to get attention for this.  I am more aware now that many other users need this function to (relatively) easily generate material list.  Many users do residential work if they could generate material list would.  A long time ago I was pretty active on the forum and my sign off had a link where people could download a Calculation Guide from my server.  Hundreds of users downloaded it, all the time.  

Thanks again for you input