ArchiCAD and Residential?

[Anonymous]

Hi guys, Newbie here. I'm currently looking to move on from 2D AutoCAD to producing 3D models that I'll use to create construction documents and renderings. The only 3D experience I have is with ADT, but that was awhile ago and I really didn't care for it (especially for residential). Anyway, here's my questions are this... I'm looking for an unbiased opinion because we all know one program is better than another at certain things but lack where the other excels. I guess what I'm saying is there is no "perfect" product that suits everyone. Ok, so we are an architecture firm and the work we do is residential (custom homes). First of all, which is better at residential, Revit or ArchiCAD? Again, I’m looking for an unbiased opinion (hopefully from someone that’s used both). I'm fine with someone saying "ArchiCAD is so much better at everything else, but if you're into residential only, Revit might be better for you". My second question is, would you say ArchiCAD and Revit are "overkill" for residential only firms and you'd be better off with a residential product such as Softplan or Chief Architect? I greatly appreciate anyone’s feedback on this.

BTW, I’ve searched and have seen a few responses, but I’m more curious to hear your opinions now that version 9 is out.

[Richard Morrison]

I have only glanced at Revit, but have used Chief Architect extensively, and I do exclusively residential work.

The answer to your question is not easy to answer without knowing what level of documentation and modeling you hope to provide, as well as the types of design you do. (Relatively mainstream vs. highly custom/fluid designs)

Off the top of my head, ArchiCAD has (I believe) these advantages over Chief Architect:
1) Better CAD tools,
2) better text control
3) better looking construction documents produced (some might argue, but I believe to be true)
4) can handle very large residential projects easily,
5) capable of having multiple users working on the project at the same time (this could be a biggie for some firms)
6) Can do non-rectilinear designs (canted walls and the like) more easily,
7) Can import/export more file types. (TIF or WMF, for example, are not importable in Chief) .

I don't know much about Revit, but I haven't seen anything near the libraries of 3D objects available as for AC. If you're going to be modeling a custom interior for a high-end project, you will likely not find the extent of furniture and accessories available for Revit that is available for AC.

Chief does have SOME advantages over AC for certain types of residential work, but since you can get free demos for all programs, why not try them out and see which fits your firm?

[Djordje]

TexasTechGrad wrote:
Hi guys, Newbie here. I'm currently looking to move on from 2D AutoCAD to producing 3D models that I'll use to create construction documents and renderings.

Hope this is unbiased:

None of them is more suited to anything than any other. The point is, do YOU know how to use any of them to their full potential.

So, in switching to any of the full 3D solutions, the real points are:

- local training and support
- local implementation help
- local pricing and payment options

Conceptually, Revit follows the path ArchiCAD blazed for the last two decades plus. The followers of each are dedicated users - but the most advanced ones are also objective and recognize the merits of each other.

Bottom line? It depends on you.

[Anonymous]

Richard wrote:
since you can get free demos for all programs, why not try them out and see which fits your firm?

Thanks for the replies!
a) There is no demo for Softplan which sucks because after all the research I've done, I found out Softplan is a lot better than CA for my needs. b) As you know, there is a certain amount of time that it takes to learn these programs. Unfortunately, AC has one of the higher learning curves which makes sense because it does the most. My goal is to research the hell out of these products, ask questions on all the boards from "real users" and find out what program would waste my time, what program is the best but maybe not for my needs, and what programs suits me the best. If I try them all, it might be half a year before I've made up my mind. I'd rather get it right the first time.

To answer another part of your question, we're more "Design" than "Build". We work with the builders and give them enough information to build if you know what I mean. Our sheets include a site plan, foundation plan (designed by the engineer), floor plans, elevations, electrical plans, interior elevations and a section (only if it's 2-stories).

[Aaron Bourgoin]

Online Forums provide a good place to ask questions about software applications, but if you know little about the application yourself, there is no substitute for see the goods in action. In effect you might find yourself asking the wrong questions.

I would encourage you to have a very close look at SoftPlan in use rather than reading about it on forums. Find someone who is using it and ask to see how it works. Pay very close attention to a) roofs and roof construction and b) how drawings are put together and updated.

Then, do the same at an ArchiCAD site and a Chief Architect site.

The flaw as I have seen it is the ease with which the different drawings it produces become inconsistent with one another. I have migrated three clients from SP to AC. They seemed to have gotten to a point where their house templates (these were homebuilders) gave inaccurate or misleading info - in effect they felt they could no longer trust the drawings to convey the required information for estimating or construction.

What I saw were SP files that had inaccurate or un-coordinated roofs - plan and elevation were different. I concede this may be due to user error or judgement, but some aspect of the software caused someone to either foul up or take a shortcut that rendered the "building model" useless.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, from what I've learned, I guarantee you they forgot to update their files after a change was made late in the project. That's one of the downsides of SP... it's not parametric. However, they say it's so easy to regenerate the elevations and sections if a change is made, it doesn't matter. If you're good at remember to update the sheets after a change, then maybe it doesn't matter to that individual.

I know Revit is 100% parametric. I haven't got a clear answer on AC.

I guess another qeustion I have is... if I decide to go with ArchiCAD, how would ya'll recommend me learning it? Getting the demo and diving right into it? (I think I did that with AutoCAD.) Learning from video files? Taking a class? Other methods?

Thanks again. This has been very helpful.

[Djordje]

TexasTechGrad wrote:
However, they say it's so easy to regenerate the elevations and sections if a change is made, it doesn't matter. If you're good at remember to update the sheets after a change, then maybe it doesn't matter to that individual.

There is no easier way than to do it automatically. As ArchiCAD does.

TexasTechGrad wrote:
I know Revit is 100% parametric. I haven't got a clear answer on AC.

As was discussed before, define "parametric" If you mean that all the elements of the building are in certain relationship, and they stay that way, until you remove or redefine the relationship, then yes, Revit is 100% parametric. If you mean that you have adjustable elements and that you decide what goes where and how, and that you can set every parameter of every part of the building, then ArchiCAD is also 100% parametric. It is implemented in a different way - ArchiCAD lets you decide more from the start.

Any true Virtual Building software has to be 100% parametric by nature.

TexasTechGrad wrote:
I guess another qeustion I have is... if I decide to go with ArchiCAD, how would ya'll recommend me learning it? Getting the demo and diving right into it? (I think I did that with AutoCAD.) Learning from video files? Taking a class? Other methods?

Find a learning center/distributor/experienced user near by. Your local ArchiCAD provider can probably help out. Learning from books/videos/online is more time consuming.

[Stress Co_]

I guess another qeustion I have is... if I decide to go with ArchiCAD, how would ya'll recommend me learning it? Getting the demo and diving right into it? (I think I did that with AutoCAD.) Learning from video files? Taking a class? Other methods?

Do the ARCHIcad demos, read the manuaL, dive Into a small/simple project..... and theN pay for a weeK or two of onsite training and template setup. Simply put ... good training is worth the cost.

Marc

[Scott Davis]

TexasTechGrad:

I invite you to the Revit forums at AUGI to get an opinion from Revit users. Go to www.augi.com/forums and post your question there. I would answer here, but I feel its appropriate for ArchiCAD users to respond here, and Revit users at AUGI, otherwise the responses seem to get confrontational.

As far as a general comment about updating views:

However, they say it's so easy to regenerate the elevations and sections if a change is made, it doesn't matter.

It does matter, because no matter how good, users will forget/miss an elevation update.

[Rakela Raul]

can you please put down the prices for all softwares mentioned here??
to have a clear idea of prices difference...thanks

regarding demos, they just dont work....unless fully functional and enough time to design a real project from beginning to end.

[Djordje]

Rakela wrote:
can you please put down the prices for all softwares mentioned here?? to have a clear idea of prices difference...thanks

Prices comparison can be misleading, and can depend too much on the local sales people; list price comparison is also not always precise gauge.

Also, price wise, one should look for upgrade pricing, crossgrade pricing (e.g. you are giving back whatever you use now and thereby get x discount), maintenance contracts and other hidden and not so hidden costs.

Also, you can not compare ArchiCAD and Revit with Chief Architect; if you compare, it shoudl be the same class of software.

[Rakela Raul]

did i say or suggest that i would select the software according to their price?? moderator

i would like to know the cost of softwares in question here...if anybody knows it please, i would appreciate it...
thx

[Anonymous]

Scott, I posted in the AutoDesk Revit forum, but I'll visit Augi here shortly and make my post. Be sure to look for it.

One reason that I stopped at Revit is their pricing. You're basically paying a yearly due. They force you pay to ugrade NOW (every year) or pay a lot more LATER. Does ArchiCAD do anything like that?

I agree about not comparing price comparisons. Softplan and Chief Architect are not in the same class as ArchiCAD and Revit.

[Anonymous]

I know Softplan Lite is $900 while the full package is $3K. I didn't bother pricing CA because I found out Softplan was better for my needs than CA.

[Djordje]

TexasTechGrad wrote:
One reason that I stopped at Revit is their pricing. You're basically paying a yearly due. They force you pay to ugrade NOW (every year) or pay a lot more LATER. Does ArchiCAD do anything like that?

AFAIK no. I know for a fact that you can upgrade any old legal license to the current version, and that since 8.0 the upgrade from the previous version is about 15% of the price. All this for International version - you should definitely check with the local sales people. As always, your mileage may vary .

US pricing of ArchiCAD is the best in the world, so there you do have a clear advantage.

What happened to AutoCAD users is that, if they miss an upgrade step, they then have a deadline to upgrade, or they have to buy new licenses. "Very" user friendly.

[Djordje]

Rakela wrote:
did i say or suggest that i would select the software according to their price??

Sorry if I misunderstood

Rakela wrote:
i would like to know the cost of softwares in question here...if anybody knows it please, i would appreciate it...
thx

I am sure your local people who sell each of the softwares you are interested in would be happy to oblige?

[Richard Morrison]

Djordje wrote:
Also, you can not compare ArchiCAD and Revit with Chief Architect; if you compare, it shoudl be the same class of software.

Djordje - Other than the multi-user environment, what do you believe defines "class" in this case? The implication is that Chief Architect is "lower class", yet there are a number of features (framing, rendering, material calculations, ease of use, 3D editing, door/window schedules) that AC should aspire to. In rendering packages, you might possibly define a "class" (e.g. includes radiosity (which Chief has out of the box, BTW) or NURBS), in CAD packages the class distinction may not be as discrete as you represent.

[Anonymous]

Gig 'Em 🙂

+pablo

[Anonymous]

Scott, I made my post over there.

I guess I'm still confused as to what program handles residential better. I guess I've at least narrowed it down to AC and Revit and have done away with SoftPlan and Chief Architect. I can mess around with 2 programs which is a lot better than 4!

Also, I totally agree. I don't think you should have to upgrade every year and be penalized if you don't meet a deadline. Is that how AC is too?

[Anonymous]

TechGrad,

Sorry for the jab.. couldn't help myself. Seriously now, I am new to ArchiCAD (coming from 12+ years of AutoCAD and VectorWorks), but what impresses me the most about this application is that it is an application written specifically for architects. Just look at all the add-ons and object libraries available online. Even if you don’t buy one add-on, you still have a program that speaks our language right out of the box and gets better when you buy an add-on like ArchiTerra, CabinetBuilder or one of the many Door/Window add-ons. They do cost money, but if used right, will pay for themselves in no time.

80-90% of my work is residential and for me, ArchiCAD has paid off and was worth the high cost of software and equipment investment. Once you get over the learning curve (which I am still not quite there) you will see the obvious advantage of BIM and never turn back. I run AC9 on my Mac G5 and couldn’t be happier!

+pablo

[Scott Davis]

TexasTechGrad wrote:
Scott, I made my post over there.

I guess I'm still confused as to what program handles residential better. I guess I've at least narrowed it down to AC and Revit and have done away with SoftPlan and Chief Architect. I can mess around with 2 programs which is a lot better than 4!

Also, I totally agree. I don't think you should have to upgrade every year and be penalized if you don't meet a deadline. Is that how AC is too?

In Revit, it's crazy NOT to upgrade! Revit 7.0 is out, and 8.0 is anticipated with the release of Revit Structures in the Spring of 2005. Revit 9.0 and Revit Systems (for MEP) is anticipated a year later.

With releases coming on a yearly basis, it is well worth the money to be on subscription to be guaranteed each new version. Believe me, with Revit, you will want to upgrade every time because the new tools a features are so incredible.

You can cancel your subscription at any time, and continue to run your software in that release for as long as you want.

The 'deadlines' are imposed by the age of the software. Autodesk cannot continue to support old software. If they had to, they would need to provide support back to 1.0. The deadlines basically mean that Revit has moved on and dropped support for old software. You can continue to use it if you'd like, but when it comes time for you to move on, you will need to purchase the software outright again.