Shift to a subscription model - your questions are welcome

[Akos Pfemeter]

Dear Community,

You may have already read the press release or the Insights post about our strategic shift to a subscription model. 

Here is a quick summary of the news:

BUDAPEST, April 2, 2024—Graphisoft, the leading Building Information Modeling (BIM) software solution developer for architecture and multidisciplinary design, today announced that, as part of its strategic shift to a sustainable subscription software delivery model, perpetual licenses will be gradually phased out by the end of 2025. This change does not affect the delivery of Software Service Agreement (SSA)/Forward subscription services to existing customers. 

Archicad perpetual and SSA/Forward licenses will be available for new customers through December 31, 2024, and to existing customers through December 31, 2025. Starting in 2026, Archicad will be available only through subscription. Active SSA/Forward contracts will continue to be serviced beyond 2025. Alternatively, SSA/Forward customers can convert to Archicad Collaborate subscriptions at the same price as SSA/Forward. This offer is designed to help existing SSA/Forward subscribers take full advantage of the Archicad Collaborate subscription, which combines award-winning Archicad for architectural design with BIMx and BIMcloud SaaS for fast, efficient, secure, real-time access to shared projects.

Please ask your questions and share your thoughts here -- Graphisoft's expert team will try and provide answer to all sorts of questions you may have!
Thank you.
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Edit by Moderator:  here is the link to the evolving information/FAQ page about this announcement:

https://graphisoft.com/convert-ssa-forward-to-archicad-collaborate/

[torben_wadlinger]

In essence, it is not a question of "subscription or not", but of access to your own data.
There is a conflict of interest here between graphisoft and its users. With a permanent licence, I can always access my data. Even if the OS no longer supports a certain software version, I can still access it via a virtual machine. So the question is: who controls the data? Who owns the data?

The purpose of design software like Archicad is to generate data in order to construct buildings. Let's assume that an architect cannot pay his subscription fee for a certain period of time because one or two clients do not pay their invoices. However, the project must continue to run, employees must be paid, rent for the office, etc. With a permanent licence this doesn't matter to me, but not with a subscription licence.

A subscrition licence should only control the use of the software. In this case, however, it also controls access to and processing of the data! Our data! That can't be legal.

[Ignacio Azpiazu]

I am no lawyer, and I don’t like the situation either, at least until knowing the math of the offer I can't refuse will still make sense. But losing access to the file (which remains yours) when you lose access to the software is true for any subscription system. Archicad is a tool for processing data and producing drawings, spreadsheets, etc. You can still take those sheets and spreadsheets and go on by hand, or Excel or whatever. You can still get some temporary license in an emergency, or go with our file to some friend’s, and modify, publish, export as needed. 

[torben_wadlinger]

In Europe, we have been protected against a vendor lock-in by European law since 2018. Although the relevant law only relates to data and services in the cloud, it now also affects at least Graphisoft with its SaaS strategy.

Here is the link to the law, which stipulates that data and its processing must be made possible without being tied to a provider or specific processes.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/?qid=1544515895644&uri=CELEX:32018R1807

The EU has developed some mighty sharp tools when it comes to ensuring the freedom of goods, services and data. All you have to do is apply the appropriate toolbox. See Microsoft and most recently Apple (USB-C, opening of additional app stores outside the Apple ecosystem).

[Ignacio Azpiazu]

I am no lawyer, but now you are switching from “data” to cloud and SaaS. Does that mean that you should be able to work on your Archicad SaaS file with other software, or that GS should give you AC for free so that you can work on your AC file stored in a GS cloud? I don't think that would fly, in Europe or anywhere.

[Florin Luca]

I am no lawyer (I thought we must start by saying that now), but I agree with @Ignacio Azpiazu, we must be down on our knees with gratitude to our corporate overlords! /s

Get over yourself, bro. What, worried your stock might go down? Who said anything about asking for free stuff?

Are you not really understanding the issue at hand or are you getting a kick for being willfully contrarian?

[Ignacio Azpiazu]

[Florin: free stuff or workability of your AC file on other software was my attempt at reductio ad absurdum.]

 I think as users our contribution here can be

- making sure all particular situations, many of which have been brought up as questions in this thread, are justly covered in the new agreement (only partially related: I just searched all through this thread, and have not found anything saying you can't have your own teamwork server; in case I missed something, which can well happen, BIMcloud/Teamwork is not the only way of collaborating, so I think even that would not fly; the point made here about SaaS were complaints about getting billed in the subscription for a service which had been previously billed apart, and which not everybody may want; to which GS will reply “you are not paying extra any more, you are now getting it with the base subscription, just as with MEP!”);

- making sure the math works for every particular situation; that nobody feels cheated (such as Karl’s reply here: https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/General-discussions/Shift-to-a-subscription-model-your-questions...);

and I think it is safe to assume GS will make sure some real lawyers will have the legal aspects covered. But I was just presenting arguments, you can keep on threatening with the law, based on an agreement you have not seen.

[furtonb]

Also architects have copyright over the plans – now what good does it do, if you can't open and edit it at your will? 

Software subscription is also in direct contradiction with the whole life cycle approach of designing and operating the built environment.

Long live BlenderBIM and all the efforts that are towards direct IFC authoring and editing, a complete domain (architecture) is being held at gunpoint by a few companies worldwide, I had my pity against Autodesk and Revit for this very reason, now Graphisoft turns out to be the very same. I've just had a discussion, that before the spread of computers and this BIM-hype no one cared if you drew with Rotring or other branded technical pens, the lines and hatches represented the very same thing. The past 25+ years representation of this domain knowledge got locked into paid silos, but the concept (although magnitudes more complicated) remained the same: if you present a plan or a 3D model, it shouldn't matter what software was used to author it.

You wrote previously to write your EP representative, it's a good thing this summer is about the elections, maybe some highlight can be put on the issue – I'll do the same. On a side note, AEC legislation in Hungary is pushing BIM to become mainstream, all public projects above the EU threshold (~5,5M+ EUR) will be mandatorily using BIM in the future, which obviously will spread to other project types too (housing, smaller projects, etc.). As a "Kleinunternehmer" in the country I pay approximately the same prices for software (and hardware) like you guys in Western and Northern Europe (and the US and other wealthier countries), it makes me quite unmotivated and this came up previously with architects working in Africa, etc.

I find this direction highly unethical, but as a reminder, that user response can be similar: when I started working in the field almost ~15 years ago, I barely met firms with a legal copy of Archicad for this reason: it was too expensive. Then the second half of the 2010s was going better until COVID, and most companies whitened their software ecosystem as well. 

I hope that we are past that point, because the industry matured enough to realise, that knowledge and representation should finally be decoupled.

[mthd]

Your 3 year subscription is up “Game Over !”. Please feed the slot 6k+, to play “ArchiCAD Let’s Design a Building”.

No thanks ! I need my game to keep working and stay active. I am not playing Autodesk games either or any other slot machine CAD/BIM game. I must stay active at the current level and the latest version of the game. You get it ??? No slot machine CAD please !

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Interesting to note that other than the originator of the thread, and another cameo appearance by the same person to post the link to the FAQ page, it seems there haven't been any "Graphisoft experts" on here to directly answer people's (very good and pertinent) questions that have come up and which weren't raised or addressed in the FAQ page.

So just to recap all this.

This news was dropped on us like a load of dirty laundry coming not on laundry day, with the proviso and promise that,.....

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Please ask your questions and share your thoughts here -- Graphisoft's expert team will try and provide answer to all sorts of questions you may have! 
Thank you.

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Still no "expert team" member in sight to see.

Will update if that changes.

But while the FAQ page is appreciated,  a few (non-FAQ) questions are begged by its posting.

First of all, a bit off-topic, but as a matter of logical consistency, but how exactly is it an "FAQ", really?

Particularly when this is the first time that this news and information is being conveyed to users?

FAQ - or rather, "Frequently Asked Questions" - to spell it out fully, as the name implies, - key word being "Frequently",.... intimates that these are questions that have been getting asked over and over again, and are the ones that demand most urgent or immediate responses.

But how can they be "Frequent" or "Frequently" asked, when the subject of 'Subscription-only' has only been in the Ether for the better part of a couple of days (or a day since the original thread was posted), and the only information we'd had up to that point (from Graphisoft themselves about a year ago, no less) was that 'Subscription-only' wasn't in Graphisoft's future?

So who was "frequently" asking these questions about a thing we had been assured wasn't going to be happening any time soon?

Secondly, in light of that, even if we assume they anticipated that some of these questions wold come up and were ready with that FAQ page to address them, what about the questions that weren't anticipated and still came up?

Do those get answered?

Do we still get those Graphisoft "team experts", or are we just going to go the hotfix route (the Graphisoft way) and have an update to the FAQ page to reflect them since they seem to allergic and averse to interacting directly with users?

(Or least those who aren't of the 'Key Client' club pass membership class, or the special 'Insiders Group' secret Treehouse super-duper special secret group)

Thirdly, to circle back to the observation that they seemed like they had an FAQ page ready and waiting to go - ostensibly because they anticipated a negative reaction (as they should have), and didn't want to have to deal with the frustrations and spleen-venting they were going to face -  isn't this all implicative to anyone at GSHQ, that this sort of customer interaction probably isn't healthy to have towards a group you're trying to entice into, or foster a long-term  financial and business relationship with?

Likewise,.... on the other side of the equation, for anyone who feels they have no choice (as Graphisoft have left them none) but to stick with them and switch from perpetual lilcenses to the subscription, thise whole announcement episode and how they've dealt with (**cough**Bungled**cough**) it should be a clue (in case you didn't already have enough of one,... leading up to the present), as to what your future will be like when locked in an iron-clad relationship of the subscription-only mode kind, with them.

The sort of well-considered, professional, attentive, responsive customer relation and interaction with users that is typical of them and that  we've all come to love (/s), .......only dialed up to "We really don't care to pretend like we care about your concerns, because now you really have no option but  pay up and accept whatever you get" .......levels of d-baggery.

It should be fun times.

I'd be less concerned about them spending more of those subscription fees on developing MEP/SAM/DDASCAD/AI tools you don't need at the expense of lagging Architectural tools and longstanding legacy bug-fixes and performance and interface improvements, ......and instead not spending it on much badly needed lessons on PR training and customer relations interactions.

[Karl Ottenstein]

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@Bricklyne Clarence wrote:

Interesting to note that other than the originator of the thread, and another cameo appearance by the same person to post the link to the FAQ page, it seems there haven't been any "Graphisoft experts" on here to directly answer people's (very good and pertinent) questions that have come up and which weren't raised or addressed in the FAQ page.

 Hmm. The last response was Thursday.  You’re unhappy on a Sunday that Graphisoft employees are not working and posting on the weekend?   Seriously?

I agree with most of your points.  This typically badly done announcement would not be what it is if Graphisoft had done the normal (for decades) thing and prepared the announcement with a focus group (talking about you, Graphisoft Insiders) in order to get early feedback in order to properly clarify and answer the questions that the focus group had.   Instead, this is amateur hour which is a shame.  I trust that wise heads behind the scenes will prepare a proper response to all of the questions here… at some point “soon”.  Personally I don’t feel a time pressure other than for all of our mutual mental health.

[thesleepofreason]

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@Karl Ottenstein wrote:

 Hmm. The last response was Thursday.  You’re unhappy on a Sunday that Graphisoft employees are not working and posting on the weekend?   Seriously?

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The original post was made late afternoon on Maundy Thursday which I guess is a half-day for many. I would say that GS has used up any leniency with that move...

And regarding the original post it apparently also had a different title with which lingers around in the platform wires. Along the lines of - a future where everything is subscription….

[Botonis]

I am sure this decision had been made before the insiders were announced as a new group. 

[Karl Ottenstein]

Perhaps, but creating a random focus group is just basic, last century, business practice, whether the Insiders or randomly chosen customers.  It’s just another case of Graphisoft just not knowing how to conduct business….

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Um.....yes,.... seriously.

I am serious, and I'd pose the question right back at you. 

Are you serious?

But let me just note down the ways in which I am.

Firstly, THEY were  the ones who promised answers in that very first post I quoted. ( I bolded the specific part for emphasis in case there was any confusion and now it seems that wasn't enough).

I didn't promise that.

They did.

That first post by the way, which I should note was posted last WEDNESDAY. ( or Thursday in some parts of the world).

How many working days have there been between now and then during which we've only had one response  (in the form of that FAQ link) - that we didn't even get until we started wondering and asking why answers weren't forthcoming as were promised?

Asking as I'm doing right now.

Did we just jump straight to the weekend?

I'm sorry for you that I couldn't wait until the working week begins to post that comment so as not to ruin their precious weekend (which theyr'e still free to enjoy), but don't worry, the post should still be there when the week starts and they can then choose to answer it (along with the many other questions have have been asked and not answered - including on working days), or more likely just continue to ignore it/them, as seems more the standard routine around here.

And no, I'm not unhappy and wondering why Graphisoft employees are not working and posting on the weekend.

They can do whatever they want with their weekend or any of the rest of their time just as they can do whatever they like regarding any response or lack thereof with this announcement.

Nothing about this has ever been any different.

Just a reminder........again.

They posted and pledged to answer questions.

We didn't receive any response to the questions that were asked UNTIL we asked why.

We received an FAQ - a standard boilerplate FAQ that barely covered the basics let alone touched on most of what was concerning people.

One would think it would be okay at that point to ask if there would be any further answers forthcoming, but apparently that's out of bounds.

At least not on the weekends.

Good to know.

RE: " I trust that wise heads behind the scenes will prepare a proper response to all of the questions here… at some point “soon”.  Personally I don’t feel a time pressure other than for all of our mutual mental health."

I'm happy for you Karl, I really am.

Happy you trust the "wise heads" behind the scenes more then a large proportion of the rest of us whose trust has been pulverized by their years of disregard and seeming disdain for our concerns and questions, just as I'm happy for you that you're at a place and situation where you don't feel a time pressure or possibly any pressure at all over anything.

Would that the rest of us were so free of concern, worry or uncertainty, enough to be so easily dismissive of others concerns who do have them.

That we should all be so lucky.

[qbic-ft]

Terrible move. I was a Revit user and I switched to ArchiCAD for this specific reason like thousands of small firms. It's like buying a house and then the developer says next year your house is not your house anymore, but you could rent it out from me for a special price. I paid more than $6K for the license, so are you going to paid me back that money and then I'll let you know if I want rent it out a license? at that point in 2026 a new user will invest $0 and only paying subscription.

 Leave it as it is and new users will go into subscription mode, Otherwise you are same sh!t than Autodesk. 

[Karl Ottenstein]

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@qbic-ft wrote:

It's like buying a house and then the developer says next year your house is not your house anymore,

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Why do you think your permanent license is at risk? SSA will continue.. for some time that isn’t made clear yet.  And if SSA stops, the license will still work… although as someone else mentioned earlier, it may require maintaining either a real or virtual machine running an older operating system to keep it working.  But, yes, we still need much more clarification from Graphisoft.

[qbic-ft]

for some time until 2026, so I will have my permanent license for a little bit more than 19 months. I already passed for this situation with Autodesk, I switched from a package that had AutoCAD, Revit, 3DS Max to only ArchiCAD. Before buying ,the dealer said the Graphisoft never would take the subscription model and I believed them...now i am facing the same crap! ....before 2026 you switch to subscription, then you pay the same amount as  SSA for a couple of years and then go up to $300/month payment per license. Graphisoft will say, you can still use your permanent license but you can't upgrade it....(same crap as Autodesk ).

 My solution is much better.....give me my money back and then GS has to convincing me to keep using their products without the scale on their side.

[Barry Kelly]

@qbic-ft 

You do not have to switch to a subscription.

You can carry on with your SSA/Forward agreement after 2026.

It is just you have to make the choice by the end of this year, if you do want to switch to a subscription and get the reduced subscription price - the same as you are paying for SSA/Forward.

Other wise, should you switch after the end of this year, you will have to pay the full subscription cost.

But it clearly states, we do not have to switch.

Whether the cost of SSA/Forward will remain cheaper than subscription (as it is now), who knows.

And for how long we will have after 2026, the option to pay the SSA/Forward agreement is not clear.

From what I have read, there is no time limit for those with a perpetual license to not continue with the SSA/Forward agreement - but who knows?

For those of us with perpetual licenses, we will always have them.

My understanding is, even if we change to the subscription and then stop paying the subscription. we will still have a perpetual license that will be locked at the latest perpetual license at that time.

As perpetual licenses will not be sold after this year, I assume that will mean 28 is the last perpetual licence.

But does that mean if we cancel out subscription in 3 or 4 years time (version 30 or 31), will we be locked back to 28 or locked at 30/31?

This is another question that needs clarification, and hopefully Graphisoft ( @Akos Pfemeter ) will respond soon as they have promised.

Barry.

[thesleepofreason]

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@Barry Kelly wrote:

@qbic-ft 

But it clearly states, we do not have to switch.

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Well - not in the sense that GS will revoke licenses (guess they have respect for some legal boundaries) but other than that it is quite clear that, barring a turnaround, any reasonably informed and rational user either have to switch to subscription or switch to another solution. By this move GS has shown their cards and it is not possible to just reshuffle and keep playing. 

The perpetual + SSA license is a problem for GS to handle and it is simply done by force. The first step is a conversion program that clearly states "nice cost effective setup you got there - would be a shame if anything was to happen with it" and the second step is to increase the cost of SSA until no longer feasible and thus terminated by the user.

This is underlined by the fact that the conversion program simply is not designed as an opportunity for already invested users while making a "necessary transition" but rather as a potential missed opportunity for the users aimed to get recommitment and reinvestment which in turn gives GS the opportunity to make their "chosen transition". Because make no mistake this is what the 3-year term and upfront payment is all about - keeping their numbers out of the red as much as possible during the transition.

[mthd]

@thesleepofreason wrote: “and the second step is to increase the cost of SSA until no longer feasible and thus terminated by the user.”

I hope not and that Graphisoft is above that sort of tricky business practice. Forced inflated SSA/Forward, phase out would be a tremendous shame for the small firms who rely on that type of service.

The new subscription model with all the extras that big firms use and need may actually be suitable for them ?

[torben_wadlinger]

I think it's the other way around: instead of higher prices, they will lower the functionality on the long run. As in Allplan. Maybe that's the reason why they killed the Start Edition.