Shift to a subscription model - your questions are welcome

[Akos Pfemeter]

Dear Community,

You may have already read the press release or the Insights post about our strategic shift to a subscription model. 

Here is a quick summary of the news:

BUDAPEST, April 2, 2024—Graphisoft, the leading Building Information Modeling (BIM) software solution developer for architecture and multidisciplinary design, today announced that, as part of its strategic shift to a sustainable subscription software delivery model, perpetual licenses will be gradually phased out by the end of 2025. This change does not affect the delivery of Software Service Agreement (SSA)/Forward subscription services to existing customers. 

Archicad perpetual and SSA/Forward licenses will be available for new customers through December 31, 2024, and to existing customers through December 31, 2025. Starting in 2026, Archicad will be available only through subscription. Active SSA/Forward contracts will continue to be serviced beyond 2025. Alternatively, SSA/Forward customers can convert to Archicad Collaborate subscriptions at the same price as SSA/Forward. This offer is designed to help existing SSA/Forward subscribers take full advantage of the Archicad Collaborate subscription, which combines award-winning Archicad for architectural design with BIMx and BIMcloud SaaS for fast, efficient, secure, real-time access to shared projects.

Please ask your questions and share your thoughts here -- Graphisoft's expert team will try and provide answer to all sorts of questions you may have!
Thank you.
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Edit by Moderator:  here is the link to the evolving information/FAQ page about this announcement:

https://graphisoft.com/convert-ssa-forward-to-archicad-collaborate/

[Karl Ottenstein]

Eric,

As a Graphisoft North America (GSNA) client, you should contact GSNA for any and all clarification from the horse's mouth; you won't get full clarity from any of us here.

If you had a perpetual license with annual updates, that was ArchiPlus/SSA/Forward ... and if somehow you had monthly payments, that was a special deal that GSNA or your local reseller arranged for you as ArchiPlus/SSA/Forward is normally a once per year payment.  It is NOT a subscription.

Subscription to Collaborate is an entirely different animal and you can follow the link from the first post to learn more.

The pricing options include  discounts for switching based on how you will pay.  The functionality differences are not clear.  While SSA (called ArchiPlus in the North American market) will continue to support perpetual licenses, there will be features that will only be available to those subscribing to the Collaborate subscription as those features will be cloud based and not provided to those of us remaining on perpetual licenses.  One of those features has already been announced to those participating in the Technology Preview for AC 28. (I don't believe that can be shared in public here.). I have no doubt that there will be BIMCloud services added to the subscription-included BIMCloud SaaS (cloud based) version that will not be available to BIMCloud basic or hosted.  In spite of potential savings on subscription by switching early (and thus never being able to return to SSA support in the future) - personally I would risk losing the discount and simply wait until the Subscription package offers features that I cannot live without and switch at that time.

Again, do contact GSNA for your specific case and needs as only they can provide the answer for your situation.

Karl

[Archlantis]

I am forced to subscription if I want the full collaboration benefits of using the BIMcloud for TW, isn't that what you're saying? That part is not clear, my rep tells me they won't cut me off of the server after 2025, but you imply otherwise. Who really knows?

[Eric Milberger]

I still do not understand what is proposed?  to complicated and bouncing around.

[snow]

Can't we just agree that we are everything else than amused about this step?

What will be the real advantage for users (comparing to sea/forward)?

Has anyone made calculation of the real cost through years?

Why is it not possible anymore to buy a license for lifetime?

Could find no satisfying answers to such questions...

[mthd]

Still possible to the end of this year but I agree that they should always be available. If their product is good enough and they trust their future users, they can still offer perpetual licensing indefinitely. They do not have to follow the current trend because they can make their product more attractive by having both types of licensing available for both types of users.

They have made this decision now and technically it is not impossible to once again offer perpetual licenses if they decided to do so. Why follow crowd of other CAD/BIM competitors ?

In the long run you would think that they would gain many more users by having both options available ?

[Erik Bjornhage]

Considering the existing SSA/Forward contracts will be supported - there is probably not any good reason why they can't continue to sell perpetual licenses...if they want...if the financial department will let them...

[Barry Kelly]

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@Erik Bjornhage wrote:

Considering the existing SSA/Forward contracts will be supported - there is probably not any good reason why they can't continue to sell perpetual licenses...if they want...if the financial department will let them...

---

There probably is no reason why Graphisoft couldn't continue to sell perpetual licenses into the future.

Except that Graphisoft have said they will stop selling them by the end of 2024.

Unless you happen to already own a perpetual license, and then you will have until the end of 2025 to buy any more.

From 2026, Graphisoft have said they will not be available to anyone.

As to why this is, it is simply a decision Graphisoft have made - that will affect and upset many users.

Barry.

[Erik Bjornhage]

Exactly!

So it's simply - they don't want to...(or the fninancial department doesn't think that it's maximising revenue and won't let them).

I completely understand why users are frustrated and upset. We just have to wait and see how it develops.

[mthd]

That unfortunately is the sad reality of the decisions they have already made. We just have to learn to live with it and adjust to it.

If current customers want to jump ship because of these decisions they can only blame themselves. Not many viable options out there that don’t require a subscription only policy for new customers these days.

Back to the drawing board by hand if that’s what it takes ?

[leandrolopes]

At this point, I don`t really care if the competitors are good, bad or just another subscription, I will jump off the ship for principles. This was a shade move. I rather give my money away them giving a company making this move. In fewer words: If there is no option for us, maybe we should all just jump out of this boat and make it a no option for them. 

[Jasen Langley]

You said it, back when I was doing sales...I knew a firm that was big Autodesk with everything and AutoDesk did this very thing Graphisoft has done and this firm jumped shipped from Autodesk and went full in with Graphisoft.  So funny, I am sure this same firm will have to decide again if they will jump ship for something different or wade this out.

Because of this, 100% I see no reason for BIM anymore in small sectors just use free SketchUp or OpenSource software for your 3d imagery, then use Open Source Photoshop stuff then use Open Source CAD and just draw it 2D it worked.  I worked with a firm and expressed this is how I would do it, 12 years later they use all Open Source products and end of the year they give a small to the Open Source people because the system works if you know what you are doing or change up your work flow to allow.

2D back in the day, throwback to all the hours users was developing there Kraft and some users understood the importance of x-ref....draw it once and let it up date globally.  

Another note, how many Beta testers will not be back over this demand...if you do not have the current version of ArchiCAD you can not be a beta tester.

Still cracks me up when I look on my shelf and see my box of ArchiCAD 17, the price was right I got the code meter key, then I got a manual, an awesome box with magnets inside to close the lid, a physical key, and some cool things from Graphisoft.  What a joke, every year $$$$$ it goes up, its all digital now, no one is shipping box that cost money, stamps, magnets hidden in the lid of the awesome box, the metal code meter key, the manual, the sweet letter saying thanks for the purchase.  So let's scratch our heads, the software is digital so in REALITY the PRICE of GRAPHISOFT and all other software should be going DOWN > .... because you are not spending money for shipping, shipping boxes, manuals that you printed and placed in the box, your not printing the letter, you buy no ink for that letter to print, your not paying drivers, your not spending any extra money.  You're simply ( everything in this ( ) I would say but the moment I would press return, this post would be deleted) not spending money for the digital key but your hiking the price up.  

This is the time high school teachers should be teaching there students how to code, but giving them understanding of what BIM is and they could re-code this and just simply make it half the price and just control and dominate the market.  

Anyone reading this and want to invest into this notion please reach out......

[mthd]

Spot on @Jasen Langley, I couldn’t have expressed it any better myself about what is happening at present with some CAD/BIM software vendors. Open source CAD/BIM will have a definite impact in the future but what that will be, remains to be seen. Also small cheap CAD apps and other CAD/BIM software that is still relatively affordable and perpetual will affect the market as well.

I can certainly do my job with smaller apps or cheaper and less complicated CAD software. They have us all hooked on their CAD merry go round and think that we will still take the ride at double the price with a subscription only ? I am forced to stop with Archicad when SSA/FWD is no longer serviced because I want to be able to run my software indefinitely. No matter what version I choose to stop at. Others have a different scenario and they will make their own decisions.

Graphisoft have made their decisions and they have to live with the consequences of them whatever they turn out to be in the future. Having an outdated version of a CAD/BIM solution is not really a big problem for many of us but maybe for some. For me I certainly will say no to any subscription CAD service out there including the smaller ones. I like to own my software tools like many others do too.

[Jasen Langley]

Again, Graphisoft is wanting me to pay them $1,050 for the next 25 years for each year for an upgrade, then the moment I stop paying I loose $25,000 and own nooooooo software!  You be crazy thinking I am going to stay onboard with this to even thinking this scheme up.  So mthd and myself agreed that we will not be around for no software to own for 25 years that means you're betting on what?  That was $50,000 you just said no to, the whole point Graphisoft was the King is because they still was giving the license each year, besides they do not even know how to market the fact this Code meter key can be used on Windows and macOS.  That was my big marketing when I was in sales, I would have two laptops Microsoft and macOS I would remove the Code Meter Key and say at the moment there are no BIM software that will allow you to do this; let's say you hired a young graduate that used macOS in the university you should not force them to learn Windows buy a Apple Computer and the Code Meter key works on both platforms.  I worked it hard, also tried to do other things with Graphisoft and Partnership and thus: for what ever reason it was not happening and now I am seeing others are coming out doing the very thing I was trying to do.

But I get Graphisoft, when I was in sales ArchiCAD was $5,000 in hope that if you was selling ArchiCAD it was actually $4,000 and the seller was getting $1,000 I also used that in several pitches how it was more affordable and better than what was out there and the fact you would now the key and every version below in purchasing the key.  Also told a few I would give them half of my sale $500 if they would buy into it LOL almost 2 years of this and never once got close spent a lot of time and energy in this for Graphisoft to come along for my big sale a firm that was looking into at least 10 seats.  GUESS who got the sale, Graphisoft and 2 others then after that I was done.

Also know for a fact someone I meet in doing this was about to sale to a mega A/E firm with 2,000 seats, but did he get anything out of it nope when the margin is something large they would swoop in and take it right from you.  For sure when this was happening I made it clear I was not hear to make money so I started helping other firms to pick up CAD or BIM from who ever and showed them its how you use the software is the key.  Learn the FLAWS, then put it on the drawing board like the project and work around the problem and select other tools or really I told them BIM is or should be looked at as a Hybrid approach.  

Until I can get the next step of my career for sure I will just be hanging on until or if any clients upgrade, I still have clients on ArchiCAD 9, ones on 12 some are 20 a couple 24 and I was informed there is no reason to continue with upgrades and I told them I agree.

Outdated, there are still firms using AutoCAD 2000 and there really is no need for a new version they use the software the way there practice works I know a lot of users could benefit in letting go of what they learned or how they use something and change it up completely add a layer erase some layers select a different tool for the application you are doing move on from what you did 5 years ago or how this firm did it.

So it sounds to me at this moment of time, if I was to go to ArchICAD 36 and stop there I would not be able to save any projects down to 28 nor will I be able to open any of these files again.  And I will not be holding a Perpetual License, this is crazy its like renting (leasing) a car for 4 years and loosing your job and not owning the car so you could at least sleep in the car or at least move your belongings.   

WOW!  SSA/FWD gives no service really, the support help is faster, the Perpetual License ownership was the only reason I was onboard with it, look in the Graphisoft Learn there is nothing in there for your fee$ nor is there anything else to compare.  99% of all users was on SSA/FWD for the Perpetual license to own that version and to own all version below that version.  Graphisoft just killed the Number 1 reason to buy ArchiCAD, truth be told they just release new things and never go back and fix them; 3 years running when the cabinets was messed up!  

LOL, I had cabinet hardware > now I have to go to every 2D elevation view and drag them to were I want them to be > now the client(s) want the kitchen to be larger or smaller or this or that done, LOL now I have to go back in all those fews and move the handles again.  So funny 3 years Graphisoft has not fixed the cabinets, some of the clients use very expensive hardware but they also have multiple hardwares so again I have been asking Graphisoft 3 years give us the option to have a handle plus a knob or vs or what ever the use wants.  One project doors had hardware the drawers no hardware, but wait the cabinets are not intelligent.  So again BIM is a hybrid approach, I told the architect lets put this cabinet here and put the hardware on and now were the drawers go lets make it open....LOL wait for it, copy past the cabinet then remove the toe-kick, remove the counter, remove the doors, shrink the cabinet slide in place to the opening now select the drawer and remove the hardware or add knobs to the doors and handles to the drawers.  That one problem alone is not why people upgrade or use SSA/FWD its for the perpetual License and to OWN the license and to own all previous versions. 

[Martin Jules]

ArchiCAD is not worth it.

[Eric Milberger]

The Perpetual license is deal and I don't have a problem with the yearly upgrades as we want more features.  The fee though must be relative and not required to upgrade yearly as some may not need those upgrades.

And it has to be competitive with other software or they will be pushed out of business.

[leandrolopes]

Lately, I’ve been asking around, but it seems that no one really knows what qualifies as an “existing customer” for the Nemetschek Group. The Brazilian resellers can’t assure me that I’ll be able to purchase a perpetual license in 2025, given that I’m currently only a subscriber. The forum advises me to check with my local resellers, local resellers tell me to check on the release and forums...it is the dog chasing it`s own tail. So "happy"with this whole situation. 

[leandrolopes]

Brazilian representatives are as usefull as a subscription model for a bad financial year. I ask them about subscribers buying the perpetual in 2025 and they tell me about how great the migration will be for everyone. 

[Eric Milberger]

Still don't have a great answer as this has been made to complicated or confusing.

If you have a Perpetual License, I assume we will have to pay a yearly maintenance fee.

And in the future if I add employees you will have to go onto the monthly program like was available for the last so many years.

And maybe the subscription change means it will be billed monthly and you can no longer stall your subscription?

Do I understand this correctly?

Note please do not become a Autodesk clone.

[leandrolopes]

If you have a Perpetual License you can either pay the maintenance fee or choose to migrate to the subscription plan and lose your perpetual license.
If you already own a perpetual license, you can buy more licenses till the end of 2025, after that you need to pay the rent every year for every employe you have using Archicad, forever.
Subscriptions are like rents, they can change anytime with short warnings periods. It can be rent monthly, yearly or for a period of 3 years right now. I don`t think it will change, I think they will just make the monthly and yearly excrutiating expensive in a couple of years. Like Autodesk did. 

[Eric Milberger]

that is what I assumed, however the questions keep coming and wanted to make sure I was not missing something.

Now it just depends on what the yearly service fee is.

Plus, It will cost me a ton to have new employees trained as they all know Revit.  I cannot hire anyone here that knows Archicad.

At some point firms will be forced to look at migrating to the worst company (Autodesk)  because there is no engineering support here in the U.S.

The engineers I have talked to are across the country and in different directions.  How will they do what they need to so on site and keep us competitive on our fees.

More needs to be done to grow the Engineering and Intern base of users.

[Eric Milberger]

I need a spell checker - sorry

How will Graphisoft grow their Engineer base so that they can compete with Revit firms?  Tis hurts us as Architects as it makes it HARD for Engineers to bring projects to us.  Thy don't want the hastle of translations.