Get the Modular Joinery object!

[Thomas Holm]

I'd just like to push this http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=135321#135321
a little more.

Ralph Wessel has created a hugely flexible window/door/panel/storefront/curtain wall GDL object, called Modular Joinery. It was commissioned by Graphisoft U K and is distributed to their Archicad subscribers, and for similar purpose to other distributors.

I've been using it for a week or so now, and I find it extraordinarily good, and something I've been wishing to have for a long time. Not only is the object itself working very well, it also has a new, simple yet very creative and useful UI (user interface), and also comes with a 22-page user manual!

If you have an Archicad subscription, immediately ask your distributor to supply you with this GDL object, and if he/she doesn't have it, to get it from Graphisoft U.K.!

I'd also like to send my sincere thanks to Graphisoft U K who've had the wit to engage one of the most distinguished GDL programmers for this task, and to share it with the user community this way. And of course, to Ralph!

[Mats_Knutsson]

owen wrote:

Thomas wrote:
This object was mentioned there so I thought I'd add some more info here - I didn't want to hijack that topic.

Please note that I had to lean on GS Sweden to get this tool. Seems the distributors and resellers generally are not aware of it, or how useful it might be. (Not surprising really, since thay can't make money out of giving us this free tool, or marketing it. And as they generally are not AC users themselves, they don't really understand how useful and creative it is.

This is a real problem with the way the whole ArchiCAD sales & marketing system works via local resellers. Some of them are great, but some are really shithouse (excuse the language). Resellers not being regular AC users really isn't good as they often have little idea of the day-to-day needs of users using ArchiCAD to actually design and document a building. Their job should be to actively seek out improved ways of doing things and relay these to customers ... but this never happens.

Ralphs window object is an example of this problem.

Graphisoft HQ needs to centrally manage all the content available via all their resellers and make it available to customers globally ... the current system just doesn't work IMO. We shouldn't have to hassle our local resellers to then get in touch with GSUK, etc ...

As a great reseller 😉 our biggest concern (generally) are the architects that doesn't understand the value of developing their methods. Getting better with your tools is IMHO a far better investment than an add-on...however clever it may be. We have almost no zip none njet users of the excellent D/W-builder, Objective, ArchiTerra etc in Sweden and the great majority of our clients are not aware and/or don't want to spend the extra couple of hundred euros when they can do it in AC with only some more effort. We don't want to push add-ons too hard but we are of course interested and supportive if "anything" can add value to the architecs process.

Bedtime...oops two hours past...

Zzzzzzzzz

[Eduardo Rolon]

Mats as a Great Reseller who has just implied that only swedes know and understand how to use archicad and the rest of the world just needs training instead…

Everyone who has used Ralph's object is saying how great it is , Ralph has made sure that anyone can get it as long as he is a subscriber and gets his reseller to contact GSUK. My reseller does not know to make this free object available and that is a problem or a symptom of lack of coordination through the reseller network.

____
edited since I was unnecessarily critical of my reseller, he is a good guy, though he doesn't know why I want this…

[owen]

Mats_Knutsson wrote:
As a great reseller 😉 our biggest concern (generally) are the architects that doesn't understand the value of developing their methods. Getting better with your tools is IMHO a far better investment than an add-on...however clever it may be... We don't want to push add-ons too hard but we are of course interested and supportive if "anything" can add value to the architecs process

I agree entirely .. my idea of a reseller value-adding is not selling me more products but assisting their customers to make the best possible use of ArchiCAD .. wether that be through training, tips, tools, free content, etc

Now in this case that just happens to be a FREE window object that sounds infinitely better than the ones available in the standard GS libraries. The fact it was commisioned by one arm of Graphisoft yet the others all seem oblivious or indifferent to it IS the problem .. i do not think it should be users jobs to track these things down.

[Mats_Knutsson]

ejrolon wrote:
Mats as a Great Reseller who has just implied that only swedes know and understand how to use archicad and the rest of the world just needs training instead…

Everyone who has used Ralph's object is saying how great it is , Ralph has made sure that anyone can get it as long as he is a subscriber and gets his reseller to contact GSUK. My reseller does not know or care to make this free object available and that is a problem or a symptom of lack of coordination through the reseller network.

I was referring to our swedish users concerning the training needed, not the rest of the world. The swedish users generally don't know how to use ArchiCAD in the best possible way. They get the job done their way anyhow and that's a thing I strongly like with AC,...that you can use the tool the way you like it. As a distributor (I see us more like a distributor/partner than a reseller...a reseller sell shoes, t-shirts ...) Architects need to master a few too many aspects of the building process and technology and it's not right to expect them to be cad-gurus. My mission is to be a guide and show them ways to be more efficient and delve into new areas...but...more often they are happy with their current methods...it's easier to shell out 500 euros on a new mobile, advanced computer game, ipod etc than a day of training (which should make them more productive so they could buy 3 new mobiles instead...).
However there is always room for improvement and again I was referring to the swedish Archicadders.
You should really bash your reseller btw. The behaviour seems really odd to me.

/M

[Mats_Knutsson]

owen wrote:
Now in this case that just happens to be a FREE window object that sounds infinitely better than the ones available in the standard GS libraries. The fact it was commisioned by one arm of Graphisoft yet the others all seem oblivious or indifferent to it IS the problem .. i do not think it should be users jobs to track these things down.

Ganz klar!
We'll probably put it into a swedish subset library for the next release. GS has shaped up the library jungle and to get new local content it's a good idea to have a separate lib.

There are a few nice objects in the depository that also would be handy for almost all of our users.

Now back to work and turn off the forum for the rest of the day.

Mats

[Thomas Holm]

ejrolon wrote:
Mats as a Great Reseller who has just implied that only swedes know and understand how to use archicad and the rest of the world just needs training instead…

Well, I feel he actually implied the opposite: Swedes are idiots who don't care to develop their methods 😉

But talking about add-ons costing extra here is beside the point. The MJO is a window/door GDL object and works without add-ons.

It's free for subscribers. To that, I can't complain. I think they have the right to lure people into subscribing by offering some extras. But of course, GS HQ should take care of its distribution to the world. If they can't handle that efficiently, they should just post it in the depository for everyone.

There is an additional twist to this. Ralph's MJ object is the first time it's been possible to model Velfac-like windows true to how they look without modeling your own windows from scratch. Previously, I've used customised standard library windows for this, but since I'm not into GDL myself, I've never been able to go the whole way. They've looked fine in 3D (elevations) OR in 2D plan views, but never both. The third-party attempts available have been buggy or incomplete.

In addition, it seems to me it's possible to customise it and add other presets for (almost?) any different window or door types, in a way I've never seen possible before.

And you can choose to place complex grids (joineries) as complete entities, or with every rectangle as individually schedulable parts, whatever you like. There's no downside, they look the same.

And, it is also a fine example of how complex, customisable GDL objects could and should be programmed to work, its modular nature putting as little load as possible on Archicad's redraw functions.

I'm not into GDL programming myself, so I may be wrong, but I think Ralph Wessel has built a foundation for future GDL programmers to utilize.

I'd like to point out, to the powers that be (GSHQ, are you listening?) that the above are all reasons to make this available to all Archicad users. To the depository!

[Eduardo Rolon]

Mats_Knutsson wrote:
…
You should really bash your reseller btw. The behaviour seems really odd to me.

/M

I don't need to bash him, he is a good guy and answers his emails promptly.

[owen]

ejrolon wrote:

Mats_Knutsson wrote:
…
You should really bash your reseller btw. The behaviour seems really odd to me.

/M

I don't need to bash him, he is a good guy and answers his emails promptly.

ahhh .. the way it should be

[Ralph Wessel]

Thomas wrote:
I'm not saying it couldn't be better, though. Two things come to mind:

- I'd like it to have some traditional window types and profiles pre-defined, not just Velfac. (I know I can do my own, but I'm lazy 😉

- I'd like it to allow slanted reveals like the AC12's standard windows do. Here in Sweden, insulated exterior walls are now reaching 40 cm thickness or more as a standard, due to rigorous energy consumption regulations. With the deep niches that follow, a slant to the reveals does a lot for the feeling in ahome, especially here where daylight is scarce in the winter time. Ralph? (I might have to add that I could have missed something )

Slanted reveals would be a good addition, and not that difficult either.

Definitions for traditional windows can be added (as you noted), but I would be interested to hear how far others think a single object should extend. There are two opposite extremes to object development:

• 1) An all-singing-and-dancing-object-that-does-everything that will inevitably become too complex both for users and developers, yet not provide entirely satisfying solutions
  2) A smattering of variations on a theme with little customisation, e.g. I have 9 different casement windows in the GS library and yet still have difficulty making the window combo I want.

In my opinion the former is a utopian dream while the latter seems to do far too little with the flexibility GDL has to offer.

The MJ object is an attempt to find a middle ground - take a particular door/window construction or theme and make it a comprehensive and variable as possible. While it could be applied to many contemporary designs, I wouldn't use it to model everything, e.g. a Victorian-era building - I think that deserves another object that explores the design and construction of windows from that era as explicitly and deeply as possible.

That way, each window can be very widely used and yet is still very focussed. The user interface can be tailored to a specific solution, which should allow the user to specify their joinery quickly and easily. Is this a good approach? Other opinions welcomed...

[Thomas Holm]

Ralph wrote:
The MJ object is an attempt to find a middle ground - take a particular door/window construction or theme and make it a comprehensive and variable as possible. While it could be applied to many contemporary designs, I wouldn't use it to model everything, e.g. a Victorian-era building - I think that deserves another object that explores the design and construction of windows from that era as explicitly and deeply as possible.

OK, I'm sorry I didn't think it through, I think you're completely right as always. Let's keep it lean and mean!

Slanted reveals would be a good addition, and not that difficult either.

I was kinda hoping you'd say that. Let me volunteer as your first beta tester!
What I wish for is the option like the attached figure. It's the only one I've ever needed, traditional windows or not, and I was very happy when GS finally added this option to some library windows (alas, not to all types, like the old crappy reveal solution).
My primary wish is slanted side reveals. The top is less important (though nice), and I never slant the bottom (horizontal inside boards and slanted outside sills are of course there as usual).
Edited: Please note that I only use these slants on the inside, never on the outside. That is of course a consequence of our cold climate and window construction.