Start strong with archicad Collaboration - questions.

[Barry Kelly]

Referring to this post ... https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Start-strong-with-Archicad-Collaborate/ba-p/...

@Emoke Csikos ,

Is this subsrcription to Archicad Collaboration for new customers only?

Can you clarify if this means a new user does not need to purchase Archicad at all?

i.e. they can use Archicad only while they pay for the subscription - basically renting Archicad (& BIMCloud).

This subscription seems confusing for someone like me that has already purchased Archicad and is paying for support/upgrades.

Is BIMCloud SaaS included only for those paying for this suscription?

If that is the case, what is the deal for those (like me) that have purchased Archicad (many licenses) and now pay an annual Select Service Agreement (others have a Forward agreement?), but as far as I know, this does not include BIMCloud Saas.

Do we still need to purchase BIMCloud Saas as an additional cost?

Please don't get mew wrong here, I am not complaining about missing out.

Personally I don't use BIMCloud as I have no need for it, certainly no need if I have to pay extra for it.

And the costs I am paying for my SSA is not as much as the subscription costs mentioned in that post, so I can understand I would need to pay extra for BIMCloud, but I have also already purchased Archicad at a substantial cost - so it all kind of evens out.

There has been some talk recently about moving to a subscription only system and that there will be no more perpetual licenses for Archicad - I have no idea if this is true or not as I am sure most of the posters about this don't know either.

I just thought that we could do with some clarification here about Archicad licensing.

So what is the actual deal here?

Can we still purchase Archicad outright and be assured that we can use this with no problems in the future, with the option for SSA or Froward and BIMCloud subscriptions?

Or is it only a case that all new Archicad licenses are subscription only (now including BIMCloud), and that as soon as you stop paying the subscription, the user is no longer able to use Archicad?

And if it is only a subscription service now, are those of us that have 'perpetual' licenses for Archicad, still going to be able to use Archicad in the future with the option for SSA/Forward agreements for support and upgrades.

If you could give some clarification on licensing/subscription, I am sure that will be appreciated by many here.

There seem to be a lot of rumours about licensing floating around, and post like this about subscriptions don't help to clarify anything - just adds to the confusion I think.

Or should we just deal with our local distributors? (If a user has one or not is another matter judging from some other posts).

Thanks (and sorry),

Barry.

[Djordje]

---

This is how Dictatorships evolve... accept it, however unjust it might be. Fortunately I think for now we are in a free market and there are other solutions out there. Very few companies are too big to fail and Graphisoft isn't one of them. If they get back to serving their users rather than their shareholders there may be a future for them.

---

Once upon a time, @Karl Ottenstein actually read the EULA that we all do not before clickin on "I Agree". Scary.

Why do you think that the markets are free? Software business is a dictatorship by its very definition.

It is a procees of slowly cooking the frogs, so they do not jump out of the pot... everything, anywhere, all at once (no, not quoting the title of the movie...)

[Mahmoud Qenawi]

What about a semi perpetual license?

If Autodesk has 3 Years subscription plan so why not Graphisoft to make the perpetual license valid for 5 years with a discount makes it much cheaper than monthly or yearly license without having to upgrade in the whole period but after finishing the 5 years you'll have to renew your subscription with an optional upgrade to the latest version.

I think we see a significant and stable enhancement in the software almost every 5 years, so why not?

Sure that's for new users not the current ones.

[Marton Kiss]

@Barry Kelly & All,

allow me to jump in with some clarifications:

• The software industry, similarly to many other industries is becoming more and more subscription heavy. Every company has their own take on how they include this in their offering, including us as well. The customer demand for subscriptions is building year by year, which confirms the relevance of this model for us as well. (pay as you go, without the need of a major initial investment)
• The Archicad Collaborate subscription is an extension to our existing offering: Perpetual + Forward/SSA; stand alone product subscriptions. All of these are available options for new and existing customers as well.
• Archicad Collaborate includes a combination of Archicad, BIMcloud Software as a Service and the listed benefits - where I can confirm that the original post missed EcoDesigner, which was an oversight from us. (should be fixed by now)
• On BIMcloud/Teamwork and file level all above versions work well together

Regards from Graphisoft HQ,

Marton

[Martin Jules]

@Marton Kiss, Thanks for your clarifications, and I understand your point too! However, Graphisoft, through its products, does not have to follow what the software industry typically does on the market. The company can stand out from the competition by keeping the perpetual license option, as its name suggests "perpetual", for its users.

This is what will make a difference between Graphisoft and other competitors.

[mthd]

Excellent resource DGS.

The first paragraph of that resource reads:

“Following the successful 2022 financial year, in 2023 the Nemetschek Group is laying decisive foundations in order to continue to achieve dynamic double-digit revenue growth rates and high profitability in the future. The ongoing transition of the business model from selling perpetual Licenses to Subscriptions & SaaS will be accelerated in 2023.”

Does that mean an eventual phase out of perpetual licenses overtime ???

[Barry Kelly]

Thanks for the reply @Marton Kiss .

But to clarify even more...

We currently have the option to purchase Archicad outright as a perpetual licence or as a Collaborate subscription (this may change in future and that is understandable).

If we purchase outright, whether we upgrade or not is our decision.

We have the option for SSA/Forward support agreements that include upgrades (and other benefits) so long as we keep up the payments.

Should we stop the SSA/Forward payments, then we are locked at the current version we have, but we can continue using it into the future as is (no problem with the GSID expiring so long as we renew that - assuming we can even if we have no subscription).

BIMCloud SaaS is an addition cost on top of this.

If we have a Collaborate subscription, then there is no initial outlay for the software, we just pay the subscription, and all updates, SSA/Forward benefits and BIMCloud SaaS are included so long as we keep up the payment.

Stop the payments and we have nothing (this is understandable).

I think I have that clear and hopefully you can confirm that.

So now for those of us that already have a perpetual license, can we be assured that we can continue into the future with that perpetual license, and continue with the SSA/Forward, BIMCloud SaaS subscriptions?

I understand that for new users, the perpetual license may no longer be an option in future (I don't like that, but it is a decision for Nemetschek/Graphisoft to make).

But I (and I think others), would like clarity that we will be able to continue into the future with our existing perpetual license and support agreements.

We are hoping we are not going to be told that in the future, we will have to start paying for the (much more expensive) Collaborate subscription, after already having paid for the software outright.

This is where I would like the clarity, that the current agreements we have in place will continue.

Barry.

[mthd]

I am not aware of, or haven’t seen any information yet about specific upgrading of an existing perpetual license needing to be done before a certain cut off time. Neither have I seen anything about a perpetual license having the upgrades ended at the version we stop paying SSA/Forward at. It would we good if this information was available or if it is out there then please direct us.

Thank you.

[Marton Kiss]

Hi @Barry Kelly 

all of the below options are available with our current offering:

• existing and new customers can buy Archicad as a perpetual license and optionally choose to get Forward with it to receive all the included services and benefits e.g. technical support and version upgrades
• existing and new customers can subscribe to Archicad Collaborate, which includes Archicad and BIMcloud Software as a Service + the previously linked benefits
• Perpetual license holders can continue to stay on the perpetual track and can optionally subscribe to BIMcloud Software as a Service, should they need a collaboration back-end for their Archicads

I hope this confirms your open questions.

m

[DGSketcher]

You missed the fundamental point that is being asked. How long can we be assured of keeping our Perpetual licence, or in 12 months will we like Vectorworks users be forced onto subscription? We are all in business, and much as Nemetschek likes to appease its share holders, we also need to make a profit. For me and probably others, having to pay the subscription rates would force me to look at alternative solutions to my design requirements.

[Barry Kelly]

---

@Marton Kiss wrote:

• existing and new customers can subscribe to Archicad Collaborate, which includes Archicad and BIMcloud Software as a Service + the previously linked benefits

---

Existing users who have bought the software outright, should never have the option for Archicad Collaborate, as effectively they will be renting the software again.

They should only be able to get the Forward support (with optional BIMCloud if they want it).

I hope no-one falls into the trap of thinking they need to subscribe after purchasing the software, I am sure there will be some that do.

---

@Marton Kiss wrote:

• Perpetual license holders can continue to stay on the perpetual track and can optionally subscribe to BIMcloud Software as a Service, should they need a collaboration back-end for their Archicads

---

This is good to know, but can we get any assurances of just how long this will be?

As I said, I can understand if new users are not given the option to purchase outright in the future (I hope that is never the case though).

But for those of us that already have purchased it, it will be reassuring to know we can remain on the Forward support for as long as we need to into the future.

This is my main concern and what everyone seems to be rumour mongering about - that perpetual licenses will end and we will all have to pay for Collaborate subscription.

For anyone that has already or will in future purchase Archicad outright, will they have a lifetime of Forward support or will they in 2, 3 or 5 years, be forced to go the Collaborate subscription route?

Barry.