Student versions

[Akos Bezegh]

Dear Archi-Talkers,

Meeting the needs of the student community is a key priority for us at Graphisoft. At present, we are evaluating our policy to find ways to better serve architects and students of architecture at schools and universities around the world.

We would like to get your feedback and ideas on how Graphisoft can make ArchiCAD more accessible and useful to students. Feel free to use this forum to write whatever occurs to you on this score. Some questions you might address:

1. Did you learn and/or use ArchiCAD in school?
2. Is ArchiCAD taught at universities near you?
3. Do students know about ArchiCAD when they choose a CAD system?
4. What are the most important factors for students who have decided to learn ArchiCAD?
5. What are the most important factors for students who decide against learning ArchiCAD?
6. As far as you know, do students of architecture submit their work in electronic format, or are free-hand drawings compulsory?
7. Is a working knowledge of ArchiCAD an advantage when looking for a job?


Let us know! Drop us a line.

Thank you


About me:

Greetings! I graduated as an architect, and have been working at Graphisoft since 1999 as a user interface designer. For the past three years, I have also taught Computer-Aided Design at the Technical University of Budapest. Earlier this year, I was appointed ArchiCAD Product Manager at Graphisoft. My new responsibilities include Graphisoft's educational policy, and as moderator of this forum I encourage all of you to start topics and post messages here. I look forward to lively and productive discussions!

[Karl Ottenstein]

Very good insights, Wendy ... I'm sure the GS guys will be happy that you shared. Very interesting to the rest of us, too. Thanks! 😉

A few things you said don't seem correct to me, so perhaps I've been under the wrong assumption about file compatability:

Wendy wrote:
and most especially, can't use them to print because of the different file formats.

My understanding is that the student / lab version can open any file created by the professional version, so AFAIK, you can take your PLN, PLA, LBK, etc to the lab and open, view, and print there. You can even modify, but at that point, saving will result in a student-format file that you cannot open again in your full version at home.

I also think it's very sad that any work a student produces on the student version, particularly any library parts that may be created, will be totally lost when the student license expires, and cannot be ported to the full commercial version. For this reason alone, I recommend *against* adopting the program as a student.

My understanding is that there is no difference at all between GDL parts on the student version and the full version. If you save those parts in an archive, then, yes, only another student version can open a student archive AFAIK. But, if you save them as gsm files, AFAIK, they work the same everywhere.

I've found it a lot harder to create objects than I ever expected, but I know most other students are more adept at these sorts of things than I. I think it's terrible to have built a library of details and objects during school and then have it not even usable.

You aren't alone in the finding object creation to not be as simple and visual as it might be. It is a shame that to have more visual creation, one has to purchase a 3rd party plug-in such as ArchiForma or a 3rd party tool such as GDL Toolbox/etc.

However, do note for the student version that while the individual student license cannot import dwg/etc as 3D objects, the university lab version can ... thus students can model things in FormZ and other programs and import them as GDL objects in the lab version, and then use those gsm files in their student copy.

All of your objects created with the student version should be usable in the full version. If the details are created in project files, then you're right, you can't open and copy the content into a full license. I haven't used the student version, so wonder if the student MOD format is the same as the full license MOD format ... giving a way to transfer details and parts of projects?

[Another thought, since you have the full version yourself. If you open a project in the student version, and have the full version also open, can you copy/paste elements from the student version to the full, or is that blocked somehow by GS?]

I have the student version of every other graphics program that I use, and they are completely identical to the professional versions. The work I've done in them will never be lost, nor will the library of textures and objects I've built up, and I appreciate that.

Good point (except about textures ... they are completely usable in the full version of AC). I'm sure that GS's big concern is to avoid having professionals work with student copies and thus not purchase full licenses. I don't see an easy solution that protects GS and still allows reasonably-sized projects to be created by students.

Happy Christmas, or whatever you might be celebrating!

Karl

[Anonymous]

Karl wrote:
My understanding is that the student / lab version can open any file created by the professional version, so AFAIK, you can take your PLN, PLA, LBK, etc to the lab and open, view, and print there.

I wasn't aware of that, Karl, but it would sure be nice. I have to pay a mandatory, nonrefundable lab fee each semester for plotting, and it would be really nice to be able to actually use the plotter instead of having to take everything to a service bureau or fork out extra to use my own printer.

My understanding is that there is no difference at all between GDL parts on the student version and the full version.

Then perhaps something has changed, because a few years ago, when I first looked at AC (and decided *not* to buy it for precisely these reasons), I specifically asked about this and was told by the reseller that such objects could *not* be used in the full version.

You aren't alone in the finding object creation to not be as simple and visual as it might be. It is a shame that to have more visual creation, one has to purchase a 3rd party plug-in such as ArchiForma or a 3rd party tool such as GDL Toolbox/etc.

There really doesn't seem to be any excuse for it in this day and age. If I had had any idea how hard it really is, I doubt I'd have bought AC. Let's not even get started on stairways in particular.

However, do note for the student version that while the individual student license cannot import dwg/etc as 3D objects, the university lab version can ... thus students can model things in FormZ and other programs and import them as GDL objects in the lab version, and then use those gsm files in their student copy.

I was unaware that there was a difference, or that the student version also could not import dwgs, etc. That's interesting to know.

[Another thought, since you have the full version yourself. If you open a project in the student version, and have the full version also open, can you copy/paste elements from the student version to the full, or is that blocked somehow by GS?]

I have no idea. I opened AC one time on the school computers just to see if it looked any different, but otherwise, there's been no reason for me to do so since I just cart my laptop to school when I need to work on a project there. I've never seen them both on the same computer.

I'm sure that GS's big concern is to avoid having professionals work with student copies and thus not purchase full licenses. I don't see an easy solution that protects GS and still allows reasonably-sized projects to be created by students.

I understand the issue - but the reality is that there are ways around that. For one thing, you simply end up paying the commercial rate for the next upgrade after you graduate - and eventually, *everyone* needs to upgrade. This is true of all Adobe products. It seems that they better recognize the value of getting someone on board as a client, and worry about the licensing fees down the road.

So someone cheats and ends up using the student version for a year in the office - this is really going to be the end of the world, as long as they're a satisfied user who will continue to buy full price upgrades forevermore?

Some programs have conversion fees where you essentially pay the difference between what you've paid for the student version and the cost of the full version. formZ used to be one, but I couldn't swear to it at this point. I know it used to be true of Autocad as well. In essence, the student version functionally becomes sort of a payment plan where the full cost is deferred until one is actually making some money to pay for it with, and one actually gets credit for the outlay.

Auto-Des-Sys and Autodesk both require documentation from the school of academic status before they'll sell their products at student rates, and so do the various academic resellers that sell everything else at student prices. Once you're no longer a student, you obviously can't provide that any more. I believe that both also have student versions that simply stop working as of some preprogrammed date - but the important point is that they still use the same file formats as the commercial versions, so any work done in them can still be opened and worked on with the full commercial version later.

Yes, in some ways, these rely somewhat on the honor system, but it just seems to be good business to get users on board early on, in their most formative years, and not worry about each and every use that the software is put to, knowing that the fees will come down the road on an ongoing basis from satisfied users who have a completely seamless transition to the full commercial versions.

From what I understand, some far more expensive programs like Oracle are actually *given* away in some training contexts (I don't recall the details), because they want as many people as possible to be able to learn the product well, knowing full well that they'll reap the rewards later. Guess what the number one selling database product is? Do you think they're hurting because they don't get paid for each and every use of their products?

IMO, it's a question of more long range thinking, rather than focussing on getting paid for each and every use of the program in the shorter run. None of the above mentioned programs are hurting at all in market share, whereas products like Archicad, with a stingier approach, are still a very long ways from dominating the market as those others do, despite having what we all know to really be the superior product.

If Graphisoft really wants to build its market share, it should be doing whatever it needs to do to absolutely flood the market with copies of AC and get people hooked early on using it - and enable a seamless transition so that they *will* take it into the office with them and not just leave it behind after school. Whatever it loses in people cheating by using the student version commercially for a while it should *more* than make up for in the long run.

As an example, you can't take an essentially crippled version of a product to your new internship boss to show him, but you *could* take one he could fiddle with for a while to get some real work done - and then Graphisoft wins when he decides to convert the whole company over and buys 50 or 100 seats, or whatever. Why would he waste his time playing with a student version whose output would be completely lost?

The bottom line is that if you don't make things easy as pie for new users to adopt and *continue* with - and to introduce to others - they'll simply go somewhere else.

Happy Christmas, or whatever you might be celebrating!

Thank you, Karl. Same to you and yours, and to everyone else on the list.

Wendy

[Rakela Raul]

wendy, you are 100% correct...one good example is autocad.

[stefan]

The AutoCAD student version expires after two years (this depends on the country where you buy it and the price you pay -- here it's about $100 for a single copy and about $30 when buying larger quantities).
The AutoCAD-files are watermarked so that they show a banner when plotting "made with an educational version" (or something like that).
The banner-watermark is burned into the file and into any block that gets exported out of it and it infects all commercial files they get inserted to (you are warned when opening such file though). There is no trick to clean the file, as to prevent consultants etc... to use a student version when working for other offices. In fact, you can solve it when you send your files to your dealer and explain that you are a legitimate commercial user who got infected files.
So the AutoCAD-student version is also crippled. Apart from that, it is 100% identical to the commercial version: same file format, same features, same updates. The only thing missing is subscription extensions, but they seem to have abandoned extensions anyway.

---------------------------------

There is hope for ArchiCAD: last week I got a quote from my reseller that the ArchiCAD student version will be a full version, including dongle, with a valid license as long as you are a student. So maybe that solves things.
She quoted EURO 50 per license. This seems a good deal.

I have a full commercial version from my former own practice and also an academic lab version (still 8.0) for our classroom. This classroom version doesn't display banners, but still uses the academic format.

I'm not sure of the new ArchiCAD 9 student version will follow a different approach.

[david nicholson-cole]

We have all the CADs in Nottingham (except Vectorworks) and ArchiCAD and Autocad are on all machines, and M-station on many of them. but there are regularly requests from the students to be taught AutoCAD because it appears in job adverts in so many of the journals. I do try to explain that we want to teach them what they will be needing (for smart design) in 7 years time when they graduate, not the flat CAD that they might need now as drafting labour.
So we have to run some evening classes in AutoCAD. Despite the pressure from colleagues that we should provide Autocad too, not one colleague is actually prepared to teach it - so we have to hire someone external.
Also..... because CAD teaching is not actually part of a specific Module, i have resolved for the next semester to hold a weekly 2 hour demo/workshop (4 till 6pm on tuesdays) on an aspect of CAD or IT, and advertise them to the whole school - with a repertoire of topics including Object making and GDL as well as ArchiCAD itself, Navisworks, Piranesi, Artlantis, Sketchup, Dreamweaver Flash etc etc..
with only 12-15 weeks in the semester, practically speaking, there is no shortage of topics, and if people miss one, they have the comfort of knowing that some topics might come round a few weeks later.

As for flooding the market, we have a good deal with GS in the UK whereby we get the Student AC disks for a single Pound, and can distribute them widely to the students, i tend to buy 150 at a time. This helps to cement them to the product. With Lightworks added to AC9, I hope this acceptance will be even higher.

Wendy wrote:
If Graphisoft really wants to build its market share, it should be doing whatever it needs to do to absolutely flood the market with copies of AC and get people hooked early on using it - and enable a seamless transition so that they *will* take it into the office with them and not just leave it behind after school. Whatever it loses in people cheating by using the student version commercially for a while it should *more* than make up for in the long run.
As an example, you can't take an essentially crippled version of a product to your new internship boss to show him, but you *could* take one he could fiddle with for a while to get some real work done - and then Graphisoft wins when he decides to convert the whole company over and buys 50 or 100 seats, or whatever. Why would he waste his time playing with a student version whose output would be completely lost?Wendy