About piracy & stuff

[stefan]

I'm not advocating piracy, let that be clear. I use a full ArchiCAD for which I paid a lot of money (about 1,5x the American price, to be more precisely). And I'm now working in an academic environment, where we also have a strict policy of only using legal software (we do get discounts, though).

---

For some reason I just had a mail on my hotmail-account which is an add for all things illegal. It announces:

ArchiCAD v8.1 R1 INTERNATIONAL - GraphiSoft, LIBRARIES, and Addons 2002
- 2003 ... AV_works, ProSite, Plan2Model, ArchiFacade, ArchiForma,
ArchiRuler, ArchiSketchy, ArchiTabula,
ArchiTerra, ArchiTiles, ArchiTime, ArchiWall - new !

I'm not going to give anyone links to these, so don't mail me about this. I also did not try to download any of it either, so don't know if it is the "real stuff", but I have some remarks, which I think are "viable" on this list, as a concerned user:

"Every single program on this planet is available as an illegal copy". The more popular, the easier it gets. In most cases, demo-versions that have temporary full functionality, are easy to "convert" into full versions. Almost every program that uses a hardware lock is easy to circumvent. Even the rather complex software licenses, using registration that is unique to a single computer, can be fixed. They just make some tool to generate valid licenses.

In most cases, the people doing this claim that the software is not protected very well. FlexLM and cdilla are often said to be not sufficient. I even know of a guy who gives a tutorial on cracking his own software, but changing on bit in the executable (and the funny thing is that he used Photoshop to just paint two pixels black on the raw data of the executable).

In the case of highly popular tools, they are fixed before they are even officially released.

Now what is my problem?

We, as legal users of these software, suffer the most of it. We invest in expensive tools to get our jobs done. We do hope that in some way this investment pays for itself. In my case it didn't, since I switched to a non-commercial job before the Return-Of-Investment point, but I can live with that.
But the use of all these protections matters are getting problematic. A few examples:

- We use an engineering application at our CAD-courses for the architecture students, called ESA PT. Almost every day, there is some student seeking help since the classroom-software boots in demo-version. We have constant problems with the license server. The software is brand new and was just updated to be able to run on Windows XP.

- I have an ArchiCAD USB dongle. When you uninstall ArchiCAD (before upgrading to a newer version) the Wibu-software gets wiped out and this requires a reboot. Then you install the new version & you need to do a new reboot before the dongle can be found. Even then, I sometimes have problems to boot my rather expensive software, because the lock cannot be found. (I still wonder why USB is called plug and play, when you need to install software, reboot and then plug it in before it can be properly "detected").

- I also use Autodesk VIZ which uses the cdilla-software protection that is also used in max and AutoCAD (the standalone versions, not the network licenses).
I've did a few re-installs of the OS (some on purpose, some after virus-problems) and also changed the graphic Card and added a hard-disk. I can accept the need to re-install my applications, but the process of this tool is the requirement of a new registration (sending a mail and waiting a day or two for a new license). Exporting the license to park it on another PC is supported, but has failed to me several times (and the manuals and helpfiles contradict eachother on these matters).

What I wanted to say is... why do we have to suffer all these problems when using our legally aquired software when it doesn't prevent the software to being copied around?
Why is it harder to use and install this legally aquired software then it is to run a cracked copy?
Is it worth it?
Can anyone share their opinion on this?

P.S. Let's not turn this thread into sharing links to illegal stuff, please.

[Anonymous]

What if I buy an ArchiCAD US licence on ebay ? Will it be possible to upgrade ?

[stefan]

oreopoulos wrote:

Richard wrote:
I'm just guessing at the reasons for the pricing policy, but I suspect that it could have something to do with the high costs of developing a localized version that has a relatively limited user base compared to English versions which can be sold (and therefore costs spread out) to far more users.

It would seem only fair, though, that you should be able to buy an English language version at the same price as everyone else.

I think that this is not the reason.
If i wanted the English version instead of the Greek one, the price is the SAME for me.
Translation issues are minor.
It requires very little effort.

The most important reason is unfortunately a political one.
All software is sold at a lower price in US.

Does the famous banana war remind you of something??

The dutch translation is not made anymore, because of the high costs involved (think about: software, manuals, help-files and other documentation).

The German version is much more expensive then the English or French ones in Belgium. And the English version in Belgium is much more expensive then the American one.

--> I once heard someone talk about it and they explained that the market drives the price: they took a price that makes the product sellable. But I agree that the price should be conforming to the local income or... to allow anyone to buy it at the cheapest price that is legally available.

Remember though, that because of taxes even products with the same price can have a different total cost.

[Anonymous]

Geoffroy wrote:
What if I buy an ArchiCAD US licence on ebay ? Will it be possible to upgrade ?

I researched this option once and it appears that technically 'all' you need is permission from GS. It also appears that in _practice_ this happens (although takes a little time).

Talk to your local reseller - who should be able to help you here. AFAIR the 'transfer' fee was something in the $475 range (??) ...

HTH - Stuart

[Vitruvius]

I empathize with those outside North America who are paying more for their AC licence (English or otherwise). I fully agree that if you're willing to purchase a US version it should be the same price anywhere in the world. Language localized versions may cost more but it shouldn't be that much of a premium.

However, GS has carved up the world into distributor regions and you are at the distributors mercy price-wise. Here in Hong Kong they want 60% more to sell me the US package.

Which, being a global citizen and entrepeneur I am unwilling to pay - so I just import it myself from the US. Perfectly legal and the price is right. Of course the local distributor won't provide support but personally I find forums such as this far more knowledgable.

Cheers, Cameron