Graphisoft and Data Design System Joining Forces

[Laszlo Nagy]

You can read the press release on the following link:

https://www.nemetschek.com/en/news-media/newsroom/Nemetschek-Group-Brands-Graphisoft-and-Data-Design...

[DGSketcher]

I don't think having a total suite is the issue here, and I hope it works out for them. The frustration comes when you pay an annual subscription and see a huge chunk of it poured into stuff that is completely irrelevant to your professional scope and the features that we need added & fixed are kicked down the road. The last two years have been like that. Will merging DDS result in another two years of compromised AC development with my subscription focussed on Mechanical services this time? If GS want to widen their catchment that's great but I think most users paying out annually expect a reasonable return on that cost in terms of relevant software improvement in a timely manner. How long have we been waiting for in-place module editing? Yet suddenly we have SAM and now the threat of MEP being added while the architectural tools crawl forward and become ever more unstable.

[Martin Jules]

What kind of architectural software do we need as architects and/or designers?

[DGSketcher]

Easy to use and relevant. If software costs twice as much but only half the tools are relevant, then a cheaper software where all the tools are relevant is possibly the better investment. It's a decision that a lot of us will have made before choosing AC. If GS change their target audience and costs rise then I would imagine some users will have to review their options.

[Podolsky]

I don't think that to say that architecture shouldn't include MEP and another engineering disciplines is correct. Because architecture includes all engineering disciplines (please refer dictionary to find out what the word Architect means). ArchiCAD is initially Virtual Building solution.
You also cannot build the building by disciplines - like today we are building architecture and tomorrow MEP. So any speculations about architecture - that this is very specific profession that requires very specific architectural tools only just sound childish. I'm 90% sure that Revit took the BIM market, because they offered universal solution for all AEC professionals. And that was one of the largest mistakes made by Graphisoft - to narrow software for architectural only needs.
So it's a great news that Graphisoft and DDS joining forces to provide better MEP tools. It's also very good that ArchiCAD started to get tools for structural analytical model. I wish ArchiCAD would get full built-in structural analysis algorithms in the future.

[DGSketcher]

I agree that according to the scale of the project, having a software that covers all bases must be great for the right business, but as with any human enterprise there is a range of personal skill sets to be considered. Consider it childish if you will, but no single user is ever going to know the intricate variables of every aspect of construction. At one end of the scale Archicad may have 200 solo users where structural analysis and MEP complexities have little or no relevance to their scope of work. At the other end you will have a single practice with 200 employees with a diverse skill set covering all aspects of large well funded projects. The fundamental problem for GS is maintaining a product with the biggest catchment ($$$ return). 200 solo licenses will give a bigger return than one licence serving 200 seats. So the fundamental question is do you serve 200 customers with a narrow focused product or one customer with a do everything software for less return. Or alternatively do you find some way to maintain a financially competitive position through scaleable add-ons. Thankfully it isn't my decision what GS sells, but the cost, complexity and maintenance requirements of the software needed for my scope of work has my full attention.

[jl_lt]

I for one, instead of complaining too much, have added BIM modelling and integration of all engineering disciplines (from information generated from consultants that still live in 2d flatland) to our range of services. Graphisoft wants to make some extra dough?? well, me too, so ill take advantage of the tools at my disposal.

[DGSketcher]

That is great, we should all be working to meet our client needs, including Graphisoft. Where things are going wrong is when you have to tell your client that their costs have doubled because the Coffee machine just had an upgrade. From the clients perspective and the 50% of staff who only drink tea it is irrelevant to the project, This is the reason software companies like Autode$k don”t want you to have a perpetual licence, if they don’t deliver relevant improvements, then users stop paying for the upgrades. At this time I have paid for the upgrade to AC25, which I can’t use due to known bugs, the upgrade content is mostly irrelevant and future diversification to absorb DDS suggests improvements relevant to my scope of work are going to be further compromised. Am I complaining, yes I am.

[Martin Jules]

When operational issues arise with a software, they must be solved, not bypassed. This is what any good manager would do in order to restore the customer's confidence.

DGSketcher wrote:
That is great, we should all be working to meet our client needs, including Graphisoft. Where things are going wrong is when you have to tell your client that their costs have doubled because the Coffee machine just had an upgrade. From the clients perspective and the 50% of staff who only drink tea it is irrelevant to the project, This is the reason software companies like Autode$k don”t want you to have a perpetual licence, if they don’t deliver relevant improvements, then users stop paying for the upgrades. At this time I have paid for the upgrade to AC25, which I can’t use due to known bugs, the upgrade content is mostly irrelevant and future diversification to absorb DDS suggests improvements relevant to my scope of work are going to be further compromised. Am I complaining, yes I am.

[jl_lt]

I dont know in your countries, but at least here, well into the 21st century, many structural engineers dont handle 3d models. Yes, they do their analitical model in some software, but that would be it. The ones i have worked with have really enjoyed working with our archicad models (which they open in sketchup ). One of them is actually considering buying it.

I think the same goes for MEP. Yes, not many offices handle or need to do that, but it definitely is nice to have, especially if you work on the ocassional medium or bigger scale project.

Graphisoft really needs to address the smaller and not so smaller issues (like the in place module editing or my dreamed automatic dimensioning tool), but they could work for ever on this and never do something new. So its nice they are doing some forward leaps and hope they cram the smaller things in between. Like always, lets keep the pressure!

[Martin Jules]

Architects often use HVAC diagrams to communicate active design strategies with MEP engineers. Most of those engineers don't spend time drawing 3D MEP models because of a loss of revenue for small and medium-sized firms. Merging Data Design System into Archicad will only increase bugs and make the software slower to rebuild or regenerate drawings. In my opinion, it is about an anticipation that is not necessary at the moment.

The most important thing would be to understand how architects or designers who actually use Archicad work in their respective jurisdictions and improve the existing tools in Archicad so as to help them be more efficient with relevant existing tools during the integrated design process. To that end, EcoDesigner Star for passive design strategies would better help professionals who work in the field than merging two software so that to increase their active design capability.