Patches Don't Show in PlotMaker

[James Murray]

I cannot get any patch object to display in PlotMaker, in any view from any window.

The patches create, edit, and display fine in AC.

I thought it might be a problem with the patch template, but I'm using the AC Library pla so I couldn't mess it up if I tried.

Anyone else?

[Anonymous]

I hardly ever use patches so I have no direct experience, but it seems very strange. Patches should be no different than any other 2D symbol library part. Is there a subtype for them now which is causing them to behave badly?

I assume you have checked the layer settings.

[James Murray]

OK I got it.

Somewhere I picked up the habit of only showing fragments 1-6 instead of All. Doing this gives invisibility in PM.

Turn on frags 7 & 8 and it's fine. Why this would or should be is hard to get. There is no work on those fragments. Let's go to the videotape...

From the 2D script:
! 1: Solid white fill to hide patched elements
! 2: Lines along the patch boundary
! 3: Lines from construction elements
! 4: Fills from construction elements
! 5: Lines from 2D elements
! 6: Fills from 2D elements
!
! Optional fragments for user defined Large Scale Details:
!
! 7: Recommended for Line Artwork
! 8: Recommended for Fills
! 9-16: - not used in this script -

Later:

if GLOB_SCALE<=50 then          !Large Scale:
    if deta goto 4000           !Draws detail
    if mark goto 3000           !Draws marker
    goto 2000                   !Draws patch
endif

Note non-parameterized (Bad developer!) GLOB_SCALE, which just misses the 1:48 (not large, IMHO) scale of the 1/4" section where I'm having the problem. I'm not going to take the time to trace the gotos any further. Showing all fragments and moving on...

I don't get it and don't really want to...How often do I want display in AC but not PM? That's what layers are for.

I think it's time for a detail-tool-era patch template that doesn't try to be a semi-detail tool.

[James Murray]

OK I got it better now.

It's not the fragments. It's the way BGArchiCAD handles the cache library.

I think.

When the patch is created, the server library gets the new part. When I edit the patch and save it, BGArchiCAD's cache library doesn't get updated, even though the project was resaved and reopened in BGArchiCAD. I have tried force quitting and reopening BGAC, it doesn't seem to help.

It seems the only time the BGAC cache LIB is updated is at the first BGAC launch of a PM session. In other words, you have to quit PM and relaunch it, then update the views in order for the LIB to update.

It's very hard to get a handle on what's actually happening. We need access to BGAC's library manager within PM. (Or at least a reload button.)

[Anonymous]

James wrote:
OK I got it better now.

It's not the fragments. It's the way BGArchiCAD handles the cache library.

I think.

When the patch is created, the server library gets the new part. When I edit the patch and save it, BGArchiCAD's cache library doesn't get updated, even though the project was resaved and reopened in BGArchiCAD. I have tried force quitting and reopening BGAC, it doesn't seem to help.

It seems the only time the BGAC cache LIB is updated is at the first BGAC launch of a PM session. In other words, you have to quit PM and relaunch it, then update the views in order for the LIB to update.

It's very hard to get a handle on what's actually happening. We need access to BGAC's library manager within PM. (Or at least a reload button.)

James,

I think you ran into my bug!

In between the crashes of 8.0 R1-R3, I became aware of the updating issue with the new template feature in AC. Lists saved as views in templates did not consistantly load in navigator.

BGArchiCAD suffers the same curse.

It is a matter that will cause other manufacturers concern if seeking an ArchiCAD solution. BGArchiCAD has to be absolutely accurate, reliable and updatable....without workarounds.

In 8.0, we were importing the lists and views on an individual basis. That was miserable...because if BGArchiCAD didn't load correctly, you couldn't even import.

I discussed the matter with our reseller. He assured me that it would be fixed in 8.1.

Upgrade to 8.1, love it...but the issue was definately not resolved.

We were sent a proposed solution from GS Tech Support Analyst to clear the ArchiCAD and PM cache. This does nothing to alleviate the problem.

I have since tried saving the file as a pla. I updated the Plotmaker layout to link to the pla. With the pla, I achieved even greater success. But only because I am armed with both a pla and a pln. If I change the link between the two, I get great results.

So, I manage BGArchiCAD with a little prodding.

Other ArchiCAD/PlotMaker users still report an inability to update lists in PlotMaker. Finding no resolution to updating lists, I updated the AC template to include a new view set for publishing lists as pmks that could then be imported into PlotMaker....that's 199 pmks! ...and so7.O

You know, we are still way ahead of the game compared to where we were at with ArchiCAD 7 & 8, but this is a real bug that other people, just like you, will run into.


GS Fix this please!



PS.

James, Excuse me for rampaging over your patches...

Did you make it to the airport on time after the ScoreBoard?

[__archiben]

guys

it's not a fix, but the following article on the archiGUIDE goes some way to explaining how BGarchiCAD searches for libraries...

http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/archiguide/SearchMethodofBGAC.html

it may help in working out the most efficient workaround for you.

BTW i was hoping v2 was going to totally fix my BGarchiCAD woes, but whilst it's still got some quirks, i'm finding it much improved. i've written numerous posts about using library caches, etc. to help library load times across a network for both archiCAD and BGarchiCAD, but with v2, i've completely stopped using cache libraries:

network speeds are much much quicker and i'm now quite comfortable loading libraries straight from the server. this takes out one extra step of complexity in the process for BGarchiCAD which, as we all know, has to handle file opening 'blind' and deal with any dialogues that occur in a normal archiCAD session on its own.

it did require a complete clean out of my preferences for some reason. i thought that trashing my draft preference at the time i switched back to server libraries would sort things out, but for some reason BGarchiCAD played up until i'd cleaned everything out.

with regard to your patch issue james: isn't this the same as any normal archiCAD session: if a teammate creates a library part, you wouldn't see or have access to it unless you manually reload your libraries?

on a general note, i do think that the whole library process needs a complete overhaul:

• it needs to become more dynamic
• cache libraries need to work in an offline situation and need to synchronise more efficiently and transparently
• why do we have to reload the entire library set when just adding a library to the current set (maybe mac only?)
• possibly more . . . it's set me to thinking . . .

~/archiben

[Anonymous]

~/archiben wrote:
it's not a fix...

You can say that again...

I know about the problems with cache libraries and I'm glad to hear that it is fixed in R2...

~/archiben wrote:
i've written numerous posts about using library caches, etc. to help library load times across a network for both archiCAD and BGarchiCAD

Thanks for that Ben! I did learn a lot from your posts on the matter.
I ruled out a cache library problem early on. TJ has one library. All AC users have that same library stored locally on each computer. Our system only accesses one library.

~/archiben wrote:
On a general note, I do think that the whole library process needs a complete overhaul:

I absolutely agree...
but, I don't want to wait for a complete overhaul...That will be two-three releases from now.

I doubt many people will hit on this bug...so, I don't see it being a priority issue amongst architects and designers. Alas, my problems are not their problem...and their problems are not mine, but we share this magnificant software....


Rick

[James Murray]

~/archiben wrote:
isn't this the same as any normal archiCAD session: if a teammate creates a library part, you wouldn't see or have access to it unless you manually reload your libraries?

Sure. But it don't think most people think of themselves as two users, one using AC, one using BGAC. The idea is, I make a change in AC, save, then update and the changes appear. While they were developing this method, they clearly didn't consider that changes to the project often take the form of changes to libraries. Patches are an excellent example of this.

The other problem is there's no mechanism for BGJames to reload the libs, even if I remember to tell him. It's better in v2, since BGAC quits on its own sooner, and launches much faster.

It's like GS thinks of libraries as being very standard and stable, when in practice most people are adding/changing parts all the time, in a hurry. I think Matthew's on the right track with the single project file. Somehow the project library should be in the project. I didn't realize til Richard pointed it out that you could link to a PLA. So you can open a PLA without expanding the libs, you can work in it, you can link to it, you just can't save it automatically with the save command. The difference between a PLA and a PLN is becoming very slight from the user's point of view.

I haven't had big cache library trouble yet with v2, just the usual ArchiCAD Library.pla not 'syncing', like you'd even want it to. I wish there was an option not to cache a locally loaded lib.

You're right, the whole library complex needs a do-over. The offline cache is a no-brainer.

Richard wrote:
It is a matter that will cause other manufacturers concern if seeking an ArchiCAD solution. BGArchiCAD has to be absolutely accurate, reliable and updatable....without workarounds

It's bad design (and marketing) to say something is automatic, and then add that you need to watch it like hawk to be on the safe side. Since PM is going to remain separate, the connection to AC needs to be rock solid.

Richard wrote:
Did you make it to the airport on time after the ScoreBoard?

20 minutes to spare! Could have had dessert. I had a great time with you guys. See you next time.