PEN THICKNESSES - How to control pen weights again...

[rob2218]

please comment.
thanks,

[Karl Ottenstein]

One should 'never say never' ... but you should "never" use pen 1 (or pens 1 through 10) for your own elements because these are library defaults (along with some other pens, enumerated by Link in another post).

Naturally, if you are using Pen 1 for so many things, you have no control. Pen 1 is Pen 1 is Pen 1.

You SHOULD change pens to distinguish meaningful elements - and then use Pen Sets to set those pens to the desired weights for your drawing/presentation requirements.

So, for starters, change your cut pen to be something other than pen 1.

Cheers,
Karl

[rob2218]

Problem is Karl that I've been told "NOT" to change the pens that come out of the box on the Archicad object parts...i.e..walls, doors, windows, etc...

Reason being that everytime you pick a NEW wall or new door or new object...you'll have to reset the pens AGAIN for them to be thin or thick or whatever....so I was told by another AC guru that you simply create a PENSET where you leave pen 1 as is.....cause thats where the walls cut pens are but it conflicts with the pen 1 of the sills...so I'm still a bit 'confucious' here.

[Karl Ottenstein]

rob2218 wrote:
Problem is Karl that I've been told "NOT" to change the pens that come out of the box on the Archicad object parts...i.e..walls, doors, windows, etc...

Reason being that everytime you pick a NEW wall or new door or new object...you'll have to reset the pens AGAIN for them to be thin or thick or whatever....so I was told by another AC guru that you simply create a PENSET where you leave pen 1 as is.....cause thats where the walls cut pens are but it conflicts with the pen 1 of the sills...so I'm still a bit 'confucious' here.

We've got you befuddled I see... Again, there is no true "never". The general advice is not to change the default pens for the LIBRARY parts - or else you'll be constantly changing them. Plus, the default pens1-10 colors are designed to let you distinguish those bits of a lib part whose pen CAN be changed. (If everything showed up black, you'd have no idea that you could change the pen for the glass line in windows/doors, e.g.)

NO OTHER ELEMENTS have out of the box defaults - walls, columns, whatever. The only defaults are what the tools were set to by the last person who saved the file. In the case of the (pitiful) US template, that is whoever created that file. Your own template, favorites, etc should have your own appropriate pens for elements (vs objects) ... and when you use Composites and Profiles, you should define your pens within those dialogs and use them - not check the box to 'override' them. It is the only way to get fine-grained, precise pen width control.

Again, library parts and other building elements have zero relation to one another and pens, other than that lib parts are placed with the Object Tool which like all tools has its own default settings (which include the option - recommended against - to 'override' the lib part pens).

As I mentioned before, and in other posts, as have other people: avoid customizing pens 1 through 10 for anything other than improving default lib part display and avoid using those pens anywhere else in your project for anything other than their color (e.g., fill color) not their line weight.

(It is a shame that Graphisoft still does not offer a brief, basic and honest "Getting Started" guide. The tutorials based on Favorites are all magic and don't really help with the true learning process...)

Cheers,
Karl

[Link]

[written before I saw Karl's response, but posted anyway FWIW]

You gotta watch those gurus - sometimes their best practices are not as good as they think they are!

Whilst I don't think it's a good idea necessarily to recode parts to reference user-defined pens, I do believe it's a good idea to use favorites for all tools to reference your own pens, if the defaults aren't working for you.

Furthermore pensets should be used to show your pens differently, but Graphisoft pens (ie. 1-20 & 91-100) should never be changed.

Essentially it comes down to either changing multiple element settings to match your pen sets or creating multiple pen sets to match the element settings. You can only apply one penset to a view, so what happens when you have multiple elements with different pen requirements all in the same view? This 'recommended' logic seems backwards to me. The pen settings really should be handled on a granular level IMHO and my preference is to use favorites to set element settings and keep your pensets to a minimum. And I firmly believe that this is the Graphisoft-intended workflow.

Cheers,
Link.

[rob2218]

thanks all.
So..the question now begs to be asked..."Anyone have any 'good' pensets out there that I could scarf from?".....

it's like vodoo economics this whole PENSET issue.

We about 20 different pensets in 'test mode' cause they all seem to cause other objects to print thick/thin/not right...etc...

so we are in a constant flux of a high number of penset configurations.

[Anonymous]

I don't really have any solutions but just want to add my frustration in trying to work 'live' and also get my penweights to represent properly. I understand there is some compromise but it really should be so much simpler than it is.

[Anonymous]

This has been (and still is ) a source of personal anguish.

I see no way not to change object pens from their default.

Elevations Sections
In Rob2218's case, he's shown that what comes out of the Archicad box requires adjustment. Even with an Elevation's pen table, Pen 1 is both wall cut AND sill (uncut). Similarly, pen 3 is window frame elevation AND cut line for door frame and casing.
The solution here may be be set Model display cut and uncut elements to each have a uniform pen (for example, cut=pen 1, uncut = pen 6).

Plan views
Most all objects come in as pen 4. That means furniture will display display the same as millwork. Or in an RCP, the toilet will show the same weight as a light fixture(we show plumbing objects ghosted on the RCP. Dashed won't happen unless objects are duplicated, which violates 1st BIM principal: Do it once. Do it right...)

Unless views are superimposed with different pen sets (a complex technique prone to layer and pen table chaos and view misalignment, Which I occasionally do for presentation). there is no way to make a single pen color appear both bold and light.

Another idea considered is to simplify pen weights to only 3 thicknesses Similar to the Model display in elevations.

Heavy- Cuts line.
Medium-Plan objects/elements not cut, elevation profile
Light- Everything else. Hatch, door swing, leader, dimension and marker lines.

Unfortunately, IMO, this leads to a flat set of drawings.

I need to go work on my template some more....