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Sustainable design
About EcoDesigner, Energy Evaluation, Life Cycle Assessment, etc.

Whoa! Graphisoft announce EcoDesigner energy evaluation tool

Anonymous
Not applicable
http://www.graphisoft.com/company/press_zone/ecodesigner.html

I see that Graphisoft EcoDesigner for ArchiCAD12 has just been announced!

Sounds excellent!

Will be very interested to see further details when released.
97 REPLIES 97
PB
Expert
Many thanks for the 'heads-up', Peter: I shall take a look in a couple of moments................

.......always somewhat disappointing that such important news is only disseminated through such indirect means. Surely it would not be too much to expect Graphisoft/Resellers to email their entire user/client base with important announcements (I don't think that finding such an announcement lodged within a monthly newsletter is really sufficient...)
AC27 Apple Silicon. Twinmotion.
16" M1 Max MacBook Pro 32GB, Apple Studio Display, MacOS 15
PB
Expert
A query, if anyone can help please:

Can ED provide the temperature data for the building (and/or rooms) on an hourly basis throughout the year?

To explain: This would be particularly useful for a project in West Africa where I wish to provide a design that can provide a sufficiently comfortable environment without air-conditioning.......
AC27 Apple Silicon. Twinmotion.
16" M1 Max MacBook Pro 32GB, Apple Studio Display, MacOS 15
Anonymous
Not applicable
PB wrote:
A query, if anyone can help please:

Can ED provide the temperature data for the building (and/or rooms) on an hourly basis throughout the year?

To explain: This would be particularly useful for a project in West Africa where I wish to provide a design that can provide a sufficiently comfortable environment without air-conditioning.......

Ed is built to let you make informed decisions, but in combination with VIP-Energy you can do precisely this and more. You can see what openings you need to provide with natural ventilation and natural cooling and the room temperature you get.
This information can easily be exported to determine what cooling effect you will get from air movements etc.


Mats Ola
PB
Expert
Thank you, Mats, for your clarification.
AC27 Apple Silicon. Twinmotion.
16" M1 Max MacBook Pro 32GB, Apple Studio Display, MacOS 15
Anonymous
Not applicable
Mats could you expand on the relationship with VIP-Energy? Do I interpret correctly you need to buy ed and another program, or is this part of the ED package?
Anonymous
Not applicable
rwallis wrote:
Mats could you expand on the relationship with VIP-Energy? Do I interpret correctly you need to buy ed and another program, or is this part of the ED package?
No!
You can use ED by itself and ED is powerful enough to let you make informed decisions. ED uses the VIP-Energy calculation core. But if you really want to go deeper into energy analysis and control and simulate all aspects of energy use in a building, then you can import your model from ED to VIP-Energy.
VIP-energy is a stand alone program often used by energy experts.

Mats Ola
Anonymous
Not applicable
As long as the price is right, ED has potential. It seems more like a competitor to Green Building Studio (GBS) which was free until purchased by the evil empire - Acad. GBS does run DOE 2 analysis on-line, but as your model gets more complicated the slower it works. GBS was designed as a conceptual tool as well. These programs provide what is likely intuitive to an experienced passive solar designer. I do find them valuable for client and intern education. I don't place much value on $ to $ comparisons of any program other than relativity of alternatives. I prefer to compare in percentages.

I will be very interested to see how well the export functions to .vut and .gbxml work.
And you can also export out gbXML files for import into a range of ASHRAE 90.1-2004 compliant energy analysis tools–such as the new tools like Bentley Tas Simulator and Bentley Hevacomp which we touched on briefly here.
This function on its on reduces the engineering inputs and should reduce their fee or allow them deeper investigation.

I'm relatively new to BIM but made the switch just for this type of function. It will also be interesting to hear how folks structure their models. My last experience with GBS was using AC 10, and we maintained a simpler hot linked model for exporting gbxml files. As stated, once the model became more detailed our engineers had trouble importing the gbxml file into TRACE 700. Our experience was that all the "certified" modelling programs had gbxml import option.
Anonymous
Not applicable
I would like to comment about gbXML and GBS!

First data needed for energy analysis!
For Green Design this is in my opinion a absolute MUST.
When we have to calculate buildings with thicker insulation and higher energy saving standards or calculate natural ventilation or natural cooling then gbXML simply wont do. It have to many holes regarding things like infiltration and heat recovery. For Nordic condition gbXML was never an option.

Then we have the speed of operation.
ED takes about 1 sec for a normal building to make a climate shell analysis (most users wont even notice it) and 1 sec for the energy calculation. GbXML export could take 30 minutes to analyze the same climate shell. The most complex project that I have tested took 30sec for ED's climate shell analysis (and yes that felt like an eternity) and 1sec for energy calculation and for gbXML export I turned off the computer after 3 hours and it still wasn't finished.

ED is integrated into AC.
GBS is a one way solution from "any" Cad model to GBS with no integration.

ED main goal is to mix simplicity and speed to let Architects make informed and accurate decisions for green design integrated in their design process.

Mats Ola
Ralph Wessel
Mentor
Mats wrote:
I would like to comment about gbXML and GBS!
First data needed for energy analysis!
For Green Design this is in my opinion a absolute MUST.
When we have to calculate buildings with thicker insulation and higher energy saving standards or calculate natural ventilation or natural cooling then gbXML simply wont do. It have to many holes regarding things like infiltration and heat recovery. For Nordic condition gbXML was never an option.
Your terminology is a bit confused here:
  • - GBS is a company providing an online analysis service;
    - gbXML is a file format
GBS uses gbXML as a transport mechanism for building data, but they are otherwise unrelated. IES, Ecotect, Trane, and many others are also using gbXML as a transport mechanism, and CAD vendors like Autodesk and Bentley have acknowledged that fact by incorporating gbXML connectivity into their products.

As such, your observations relate entirely to GBS. To say that gbXML isn't suitable for certain calculations is like saying a .pln isn't suitable for producing a new drawing - you don't produce things with a file format. gbXML is explicitly designed for transporting the kind of data you're talking about and - better still - it's an open, published standard with contributors from across the industry.
Mats wrote:
ED main goal is to mix simplicity and speed to let Architects make informed and accurate decisions for green design integrated in their design process.
ED is an entirely different exercise. Real building simulation across an entire year of use is very computationally intensive - much like the calculations performed for radiosity rendering, only more involved because the model parameters change on an hourly basis as you move through the days and seasons. This is why the GBS analysis can take a long time (as any genuine simulation engine will). It may not be helpful to do this at a very early stage of design (presenting ideas to the client) when you may not have established the construction of the building fabric. All you want is 'rule of thumb' results - how is performance affected if I do this? Or that? Is my design improved or worsened? For example, our local planners were leaning on me to re-orientate a building to align with the road rather than the sun - a difference of 15 degrees. I would have very much liked to be able to quickly establish how damaging that might be to solar gains etc. I'm hoping that's what ED will deliver.

The data produced by ED may be wildly inaccurate in a literal sense, but should help you make decisions at an early stage in order to produce an excellent foundation for fine-tuning later, when the early decision have been frozen and detailed design begins. This is where more powerful tools become involved (e.g. IES), and gbXML is the emerging standard for sharing data with them.
Ralph Wessel BArch
Software Engineer Speckle Systems
Anonymous
Not applicable
KeesW wrote:
Hello David

I am mistaken - I thought that it was a proper energy accreditation tool, in which case it would need to be accredited with our councils. If it isn't, why not? You mean that we have to keep manually re-entering data from our model into an Accurate, First Rate etc spreadsheet to calculate star ratings for energy approvals? Yet all the data for the spreadsheets is already contained in our Archicad model - if someone was clever enough to develop an interface.

Is EcoDesigner another almost perfect but handicapped add-on that Graphisoft is so good at producing (cf Lightworks)?
I know that the answer to the above question was to read the whole thread, but I wonder if there is a more simple answer possible by puting the question this way: If one looks at Archiphysik demo he will see that at the end of the day the software can produce the energy performance document of the building and its energy consumption category. Can Ecodesigner do the same, and if not what we can do that will still be better than using Archiphysik?