ArchiCAD vs. VectorWorks

[SeaGeoff]

ArchiCAD rocks.

VectorWorks sucks.

VectorWorks is not now nor never will be BIM. It's for cheapskate cretins who cannot handle a real program like ArchiCAD.

Petri wrote:

Bricklyne wrote:
Much as I would love to get into a pissing contest

Well, I think this pretty much sums up the intellectual level and capacity of ArchiCAD users.

Oh yea? Well your mother uses autocad

[Aaron Bourgoin]

Tom,

Cost of Ownership can be looked at in a number of ways: straight dollar cost - i.e how many dollars does it cost me each year; or alternatively, what do my upgrades cost relative to what I layed out originally.

Expressed as a percentage of the original capital outlay (i.e., what the seats cost in the first place) ArchiCAD upgrades have always been less expensive than MiniCAD/VectorWorks.

[I am leaving any discussion of the content of each product's upgrades out of this - more features, less bugs, etc. I'm sure someone else is more anxious to weigh in on that than I]

Looking at Cost of Ownership year over year (the narrow view IMHO) AC upgrades are as little as 16.3% of OCO versus VW at about 28.5%

The attached spreadsheet shows rough numbers based on Canadian pricing for both 1 and 5 seats of each product with 2 different scenarios for upgrades: upgrade each year and upgrade in alternate years.

Your accountant might also think about this differently than you do as the user/purchaser/maintainer. In Canada software is a 100% tax write off in the year it was purchased, so the software's value - in the eyes of the tax man is very different on December 30 than it is on January 1. In the end, software (capital cost of software, that is) is a lot like beer - you don't own it, you just rent it.

For the record, I do sell ArchiCAD - have done for the last 12 years. I also used to sell MiniCAD up to version 6. Diehl-Graphsoft/Nemetschek upgrades have always been more costly expressed as a percentage of what they are upgrading.

[TomWaltz]

multiply that by 32 seats... no matter what percentage the upgrade price is of the purchase price, that is a LOT of money to drop on software every year. It's the magnitude of the expense that concerns me.

Why does the percentage matter? Apple charges 100% upgrade fees, but at $129 it's not a big deal for an OS, or even $99 for iWork.

[SeaGeoff]

All (or at least most) joking aside, I too am quite familiar with VectorWorks, having used, taught and supported (but never sold) it for about five years before joining the ArchiCAD cult. It was my frustration in using and supporting VectorWorks in a small (4-6 person) architecture firm, up to version 10.5, that promped me to search out something better suited to architectural practice. That search led me to ArchiCAD, which I purchased out my own pocket and learned while still working with VectorWorks. It was quite evident from the outset that there were many things that VectorWorks did better. But that's always the case and I think my decision was a good one, especially now with ArchiCAD 10's inclusion (and improvement) of PlotMaker's functions within ArchiCAD as coordinating and assembling document sets was my major source of frustration with VectorWorks.

These observations are made throught the lens of architectural practice. It was durring my previous life as a furniture maker that I discovered VectorWorks and in that context it is simply brilliant. The boolean operations, built-in rendering and general ease of use make it the perfect choice. And for struggling artisans and part time users (I was both) the cost of ownership issues are a much bigger deal. The Seattle VectorWorks User's Group had a lot of cabinet makers, remodel carpenters, interior designers, as well as architects. With the introduction of Landmark, Spotlight and Machine Design, VectorWorks' appeal is further broadened.

For many users VectorWorks offers the ideal combination of drafting, modeling and rendering, obviating the need for a stable of more expensive applications. This value has made VectorWorks very popular and successful. However it simply does not match ArchiCAD for the purpose of design, modeling and documenting buildings, especially on larger projects and in larger firms. But that does not diminish it's worth. In the past Nem made the decision to exploit VectorWorks' market position instead of restructuring it to compete against the expensive "BIM" applications. That strategy has worked well and remains viable. Velimir argues that VectorWorks' weak presence in Europe makes it a non-factor in Nem's plans there. That would be a mistake. They should be leveraging all their resources worldwide. There is no reason VectorWorks' success in North America should not be repeated elsewhere.

Despite my argument that VectorWorks should not be assimilated into ArchiCAD (or visa versa) I do agree with Wes that a clear product strategy will greatly benefit Nem, now more than ever. Without speculation about the future of ArchiCAD and AllPlan, some technology sharing should occur. We'd all love to cherry pick our favorite features from all available applications (including Revit and Triforma) to build our ideal virtual building program. While that will not be possible, Nem will soon control an incredible collection of AEC technologies to draw from.

Perhaps if we're capable of getting past the infantile "my daddy's CAD can beat up your daddy's CAD" quarrel we can now discuss the actual features and workflows in ArchiCAD and VectorWorks respectively, what works and what doesn't, and how each application should evolve.

[Anonymous]

<LOL> to your opening post, Geoff <g>.

Wendy

[Rakela Raul]

http://www.nemetschek.net/architect/bimwhitepaper.php


it does look good

[Anonymous]

That page contains *stupid* disinformation -- it bleats about 15 pages of Revit tutorials used to show how to complete a detail and then makes a bullshit comment that because the tutorial is long (read: thorough and lists all the steps so that even a monkey could do it), the software is "tuned for BIM and not graphics". Exsqueeze me?

They make the same baloney over exporting to CAD. You make a point-by-point tutorial with big screenshots, use up a bunch of pages, and then your software gets painted as inferior.

They could well done this with ArchiCAD! (It would have been funnier now if they had.)

AC and Revit users know what to model, and what to detail; we know why we have to do some setup work to export to CAD. The VW spin team is causing confusion with this paper.

[Rakela Raul]

i didnt read it in full but lookd very informative and what really calld my attention is that it seems like another BIM/VIRTUAL software available AND with several intereresting modules like planning , landscaping, etc.

[Anonymous]

Vectorworks is actually a neat product -- unusual and refreshing. It feels like CorelDraw for architects. And I'd be happy using it if there was no Revit. But they're trying to step up to the plate where AC and Revit play at -- the BIM Major Leagues -- and I'm sorry, but they're not in our league 😉

[Rakela Raul]

And I'd be happy using it if there was no Revit.

shame on you

[Dwight]

Rakela wrote:

And I'd be happy using it if there was no Revit.

shame on you

Some guys will always pick the dark side. See how he dresses in black? A bad sign.

Life would lack drama if everybody made the right choice from the getgo. What would divorce lawyers do for a livelihood, for instance?

There was a time, back before legitimate contender REVIT appeared, that 80% of Archicad users were using another application to do their work when they switched.

Shame, then redemption. Moving to the white clothes.