BIM collaboration or the Integrated Virtual Building Model

[Laura Yanoviak]

After searching the site, I am quite surprised by what seems to be a lack of experience amongst users regarding the use of integrated VBMs.

Part of my concern is that Autodesk is so aggressively marketing Revit Structure (and soon Revit MEP) and our consultants are eating it up. In fact, it is my impression that we (in Denver) now have more engineering consulting firms implementing BIM than architectural firms. Has anyone else witnessed a similar trend?

About a year ago, our firm (after extensive research) determined ArchiCAD the superior product over Revit (for numerous reasons I will not elaborate on here). We were not too concerned about our consultants, or utilizing an integrated VBM, because we figured that the consultant’s implementation of BIM was a couple of years off (as it was assumed that they would wait to see what the architectural profession adopted), and if they did choose a BIM application other than ArchiCAD, there was always NavisWorks, etc. to facilitate conflict resolution. We concentrated on dwg translation, so that consultants could continue working in the traditional manner while we became proficient in BIM.

But it appears that the time has come – we have a client (contractor) on a design/build project who is requiring the design team to work in BIM, with an integrated VBM the logical objective. The contractor is familiar with ADT and Graphisoft Constructor; our structural engineer has been implementing Revit Structure. MEP is TBD.

From perusing this site, I have found little to no information regarding BIM collaboration. Does anyone out there have any experiences they can share, or advise to offer regarding this subject?

PS. Here's the most relevant thread for those interested: archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=7698

[Djordje]

Laura wrote:
After searching the site, I am quite surprised by what seems to be a lack of experience amongst users regarding the use of integrated VBMs.

Frankly, I am not. Taken that most of the people around here are architects in the US meaning of the word, and that those that actually take part in the execution of the designed building are "limited" to Europeans, the drive to include full MEP in ArchiCAD is limited, to be polite ...

However, Constructor that is - engine wise - ArchiCAD on construction steroids, does have full MEP module. Structural solution is rather around the corner AFAIK.

Laura wrote:
Part of my concern is that Autodesk is so aggressively marketing Revit Structure (and soon Revit MEP) and our consultants are eating it up. In fact, it is my impression that we (in Denver) now have more engineering consulting firms implementing BIM than architectural firms. Has anyone else witnessed a similar trend?

Well ... they are more closely linked to construction, and it is the contractors that do and will drive the VB business model, as they get to benefit the most.

Laura wrote:
About a year ago, our firm (after extensive research) determined ArchiCAD the superior product over Revit (for numerous reasons I will not elaborate on here). We were not too concerned about our consultants, or utilizing an integrated VBM, because we figured that the consultant’s implementation of BIM was a couple of years off (as it was assumed that they would wait to see what the architectural profession adopted), and if they did choose a BIM application other than ArchiCAD, there was always NavisWorks, etc. to facilitate conflict resolution. We concentrated on dwg translation, so that consultants could continue working in the traditional manner while we became proficient in BIM.

The things are moving fast; IFC should be the name of the game, BUT - the big A would love to eat that cake too, so has no interest in collaboration. Graphisoft on the other hand has jumped in head first, and does have the solution right now ... tha does speak other languages, too.

Laura wrote:
But it appears that the time has come – we have a client (contractor) on a design/build project who is requiring the design team to work in BIM, with an integrated VBM the logical objective. The contractor is familiar with ADT and Graphisoft Constructor; our structural engineer has been implementing Revit Structure. MEP is TBD.

You should immediately rope in the local Graphisoft support, and jump onto the Constructor end of the things; your design models, IF done properly (full 3D, no fancy linework on unlinked elevations, etc) are probably more suitable to be enriched with the construction data than it is really necessary to re-model everything. However, that is also a source of revenue - so look at it in that way. Your opportunity is someone else's loss. And the other way around.

Laura wrote:
From perusing this site, I have found little to no information regarding BIM collaboration. Does anyone out there have any experiences they can share, or advise to offer regarding this subject?

Well ... the whole model of collaboration is at the embrionic stage, so we here are either the best equipped to drive the revolution, or will be eaten by it. My feeling is that only we can decide our faith in the bigger picture - as we will be the ones to suffer, when the contractors decide that design&build will be the name of the game and that the architects are not needed. Plus, the software standards and Autodesk behaviour are not laying ot a very bright path forwards.

Let's keep talking ...

[__archiben]

Laura wrote:
In fact, it is my impression that we (in Denver) now have more engineering consulting firms implementing BIM than architectural firms. Has anyone else witnessed a similar trend?

yes, for years!

the engineering and structural sub-contractors (in particular steelwork) have been at least a decade ahead of the game. structural analysis lends itself to BIM particularly well: it's the property information that can be assigned to structural elements that play as important a part in that analysis as their geometric shape and position.

x-steel, 3d-plus, you-name-it, it's-all-object-property-based . . .

with regard to collaboration, IFC is the way to go: being an open standard for describing a building model database. the problem is that the development of the IFC class system appears to be falling behind the rapid uptake BIM/VC. it's also an unfortunate state of commercialism that not all, (if any!), software developers will give us consumers a truly open, efficient and freely translatable platform with which to collaborate.

the person or organisation who designs, develops and implements a freely available, open source virtual building and construction platform that meets the entire construction industry's needs will have my allegiance in a heartbeat . . . i can dream can't i?!

~/archiben

[Anonymous]

FYI - navisworks are working on IFC reader for release in the next few months, if this helps

John