Synchro

[Steve Jepson]

Is this what happened to Constructor ?

http://www.synchroltd.com/

[Anonymous]

My beef is with your certainty on "It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features.", which was the stepping stone used for your old favorite "just goes to show you how "great" an upgrade AC13 was, with close to zero modelling tools improvements".

As I explained carefully, TW2 is a very powerful feature to Contractors and VICO users, who are using ArchiCAD to model.

If you have a different opinion, namely if you maintain that TW2 is of no use whatsoever to them, then please share with us the reasons for getting to that conclusions, besides a link to a VICO product.

Seems to me more productive than pouting..

[Anonymous]

I know at least one major contractor who is interested in the potential for TW2. From my experience coordinating large construction projects I feel certain that properly implemented TW2 could be HUGE for this purpose. This does not mean that it will overcome Revit in the marketplace but it does at least open up some interesting opportunities.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Krippahl wrote:
My beef is with your certainty on "It's highly unlikely that Contractors and Vico users would benefit from the Teamwork 2.0 features.",
................

If you have a different opinion, namely if you maintain that TW2 is of no use whatsoever to them, then please share with us the reasons for getting to that conclusions, besides a link to a VICO product.

Seems to me more productive than pouting..

First of all, who's pouting? I just told you that I didn't want to get into some sort of belligerent thing over all this with you, seeing as that's the attitude you seem to approaching all this with and I couldn't possibly be any less interested in that kind of a discussion.

Secondly, YOU were the one that stated categorically that Constructor was dead. All I did was provided a link to the developer's website stating otherwise (at least as far as the 2009 version is concerned). Again, nowhere does the website state that they are discontinuing the product in favor of ViCo suite, which I also stated.

These are all FACTS.

So again I ask you where did I lie, misinform or post an ignorant statement? If the website is posting incorrect information, - which may well be the case, if what you say is true - is that my mistake or the developer's error? You have yet to answer these questions in your continuing relentless attacks.

As for my statement regarding TW2, and its viability to contractors, that was my OPINION based on my knowledge of the local construction industry contractors, users and their work coordination habits.

OPINION.

You know what those are? We're still allowed those, right?
Do you know what the difference is between OPINIONS and FACTS?

AND it was an OPINION based on the Industry practices and market state in my locality where Revit and the Autodesk Revit and Autodesk Architecture Suites are the dominating Industry standards. Where the rest of the Construction Industry is less apt to adopt BIM and integrated design and documentation methodologies thanks in large part to Autodesk's efforts at splintering and compartmentalizing the various AEC fields - to suit their branding marketing strategy. And where thanks to the highly litigious (Lawsuits and Liability) nature of not just the North American Industry but N.American culture in general, you would be hard-pressed to convince contractors, engineers and other AEC consultants to adopt such a methodology, workflow and software that de-consolidates responsibility (in the Teamwork way with an integrated single model) in the effort of shoring up integration and coordination the way BIM workflow and software does.

Those are some of the reasons on which I based that OPINION.

I'm not exactly certain how the Iberian construction industry works but you're not likely to hear me correcting you on any OPINIONS you offer regarding the Portuguese Construction Industry practices and market. Probably because I'm not knowledgeable enough about how it works there. But that's just me.

Oh and one another thing. When someone makes a statement that "It's highly UNLIKELY that A, B, C or D will happen...." like I did in the original statement, that usually tends to denote POSSIBILITY and not a "certainty" as you are accusing me of stating. It's a small semantic and probably pedantic point but it's an important one nonetheless. Especially, since it likely would have clued you in to the fact that it was presented as an OPINION and not a FACT (or certainty), and probably saved us both all this nonsense.

Krippahl wrote:
........ which was the stepping stone used for your old favorite "just goes to show you how "great" an upgrade AC13 was, with close to zero modelling tools improvements".

.......Really?
Since you brought it up, name me one major modelling Tool upgrade in ArchiCAD 13.
And not something that was actually introduced in ArchiCAD 12 (half-baked) only to be completed in this version (Curtain Wall tool being the obvious candidate here.). Not Documentation tools, Not interface improvements or additions, not under-the-hood improvements like 64-bit and Multicore awareness - Modelling tools. Just one.

I'll start you off:
ArchiCAD 10 had Complex profile manager - a major modelling tool upgrade,
ArchiCAD 12 had the Curtain Wall Tool, -a major modelling tool upgrade, ArchiCAD 13 had............????

Even Graphisoft were careful in the wording of their AC13 marketing talking about "Productivity" improvements as opposed to new modelling tools.

(Note that I didn't include AC11 for the simple reason that their stated major modeling tool improvement for that version was Curved Complex profiles, which is really just a completion of a tool they introduced in AC10 and not a new tool to any stretch or degree. Same thing should apply new Major tools you name for AC13)

Just one.

[Anonymous]

Brick
It would be nice if you came onto the forum and helped users solve problems
more with less ranting.
Just my OPINION.
Mr Draw

[Anonymous]

I will post some more thoughts against my better judgment, but hey, it's that special season and even trolls have to eat.

Stating that ArchiCad's Teamwork 2.0 has no interest whatsoever to Contractors and VICO users (not your localized market contractors and VICO users, mind, but all of them, as was implied in your original post), and extrapolating from there that AC13 upgrade, because of it's lack of new modeling tools, is not a great product, is plain wrong. In fact, it could not be wronger.

This is why:

- VICO Office Suite imports models from various sw, for now ArchiCAD, Revit and Tekla. This was a strategic move from VICO (dumping it's own modeler, Constructor), and allows them to get into a bigger market - namely, the USA market where Autodesk has a choking hold over the industry and the governments. I think this will be a good thing for ArchiCAD, because more people will realize that the competition modeler is not up to hype, and they will come into contact with ArchiCAD generated models.

- Models developed by contractors, for coordination, planning and management purposes, differ somewhat from designer models. Their prime objective is not to produce documentation, but produce localized quantities. On the other hand, it is not a model that suffers as many changes as a design model, because usually the design is finished when the modeling begins.

- There is no contractors oriented modeling software out there, so they have to use sw that was developed for designers. ArchiCAD has a huge advantage there, because of it´s flexibility. It s not locked into some dumb family system, it is not plagued with relationships that bog down the model the bigger it gets

- The ROI in construction models is bigger the bigger the building is. Therefore, the modeling software has to be able to handle big models. Big models means teams of modelers, because of the tight time frame.

- Big models also mean big files, so multicore capability (for fast saves) and 64bits (for lots of RAM) is a very big advantage.

So, from the contractor and VICO point of view, here is what is great about ArchiCAD:
1- Lets you compare different versions of the same drawing from where you are modeling - trace reference.
2- Allows for very personalized work flows.
3- Handles big files (better now with 64bits from AC13).
4- Allows for very fluid teamwork (better now with TW2 from AC13).

What ArchiCAD 13, on your words, doesn't give to contractors and VICO users:
1- New modeling tools. They don't care, the existing ones are more than enough for coordination, planning and management purposes.

So, it is easy to see that AC13 is a very real and exciting product for contractors, more so because of it's productivity improvements: 64 bits and TW2. The alleged lack of modeling tools, well, we could not care less, the ones that exist are more than enough thank you.

Finally, I would like to point out that these opinions stem from 2 years of intensive experience with VICO software, modeling big buildings for contractors on Constructor and ArchiCAD, and not on reading a specific web page. That is why I thought it could be interesting for others to share with.

Now please feel free to go off in a tangent and run away from the specific subject we are discussing: ArchiCAD13 from the Contractor and VICO user point of view.

[Anonymous]

Miguel, you're giving away all our secrets 😉

How do you find Vico to be with very large models?

I recently imported the entire model for a 45,000sm hospital (ARCH, STRUCT & MEP) into Navis which it handled quite easily. I'm hoping to try something similar with Solibri over the holidays. IFC export may be a bit of a barrier though for something this large. Took too long the last time I tried. Don't know if it ever would have completed (the old Turing problem). Maybe 13 will do better.

[Anonymous]

The secret is not knowing how it can be done, but being able to do it (as many people who payed for BIM consultants found out the hard way).


I have not tried the new VICO Office Suite on a very large model yet.
On the 20.000m2 office building it did all right.
On the 55.000m2 Hospital it is good, but the model does not include MEP yet.

If all goes according to planning, next month I will tell you how it went.
Thing with VICO is that, unlike Solibri, you don't have to export the model from ArchiCAD in IFC format, so it should be easier.

[Erika Epstein]

Krippahl wrote:
I have not tried the new VICO Office Suite on a very large model yet.
On the 20.000m2 office building it did all right.
On the 55.000m2 Hospital it is good, but the model does not include MEP yet.

Would you care to elaborate on 'all right' and 'good'?
What worked and didn't work well and why?

[Anonymous]

What horsepower Mac or PC is needed to bring moderate size models into Vico?

[Djordje]

Matthew wrote:
Miguel, you're giving away all our secrets 😉

Yeah, so is Michael Schumacher when he talks about driving ... 😉