revit 2010 and autocad 2010

[TMA_80]

Hello everyone:

someone had to create this topic

here are some links to see what's new in the conccurent products:

autocad 2010:
http://heidihewett.blogs.com/my_weblog/2009/02/autocad-2010-wow.html

(download the preview guide)

revit 2010:

http://bimboom.blogspot.com/

on thing is sure, they've done a good job...i'm sure GS will too.

In revit, the panneling tool feature seems intresting ...parametric rules

[edit] i've created this topic then deleted it but it seems always available trough google searching , so ..i repost it...
with a little update: have a look at the autodesk press release especially the video presentation ( the second one )....

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Daniel wrote:
.....The fact of the matter is we need tools that allow for better detailing of everyday building components. Simple things, like putting a bevel or bullnose on the edge of a slab (without having to use SEO and extruded profiles as a workaround) Or drawing a simple curving curb on a driveway down a sloping site. Sloping and curving retaining walls. .......

.......

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Daniel wrote:
...........
Secondly, the ArchiCAD Library is a joke. ........ I have yet to see an object outside the GDL world import with a clean 2d symbol, smooth surfaces, parametric materials and proper elevation representation.

........

...........

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Daniel wrote:
..........

There was a poor attempt to remedy this issue with MaxonForm. I paid $700 for this lousy implementation of a freeform modeling solution and it never really worked. And then GS dumped it. This angered me quite a bit. There is currently no Sketchup importer for OSX ArchiCAD either. Also incomprehensible.

........(sigh) you get the point...... ..........







In any case, trust me, lots of us feel your pain.

Unfortunately many others claim not to (feel your pain or need these improvements in ArchiCAD) and it is sadly, to these vocal numbers that GS seems to pay most attention to.

.....and so it is, that the beat goes on........and on........and on..........and on...........





p.s. quoting all the above for solid and wholehearted agreement

[Anonymous]

Thanks Bricklyne,

I accept your support and hope this only brings renewed attention to an otherwise numbing argument. I guess I felt I might as well voice my feeling rather than not. Otherwise these forums will not serve to improve the software. I suppose the comment would have been better suited in the feature request area, but it was in response to the comments started herein.

[Rob]

Well, somehow the whole BIM is not as appealing as it used to be in the past. In a long run the software (either AC or Revit) has become so complex that it takes a real effort to comprehend all bits and pieces, workarounds and features as we push for more detailed models. I do not know what it waiting for us in the future but I see the major problem in the obsolete approach of the building industry itself. And that is an use of 2D symbolic drawings during the construction phase.

I have attended a seminar lead by Japanese architect Toyo Ito recently.
And I have seen the future as it should be. Along his absolutely marvelous projects of free-form concrete structures he explained the process at the building site where workers are using software for all curved formwork and steel reinforcement. Again - on site! You might say well, it is possible but what about costs. Actually all his presented projects were public buildings funded by the government with a fixed budget! And they did it. I suppose the level of labour skills in Japan is so high that what we perceive as an extra effort is a standard on Japanese market therefore the higher cost is not applicable. Anyway, it was an amazing lecture.

The bottom line is that not the software (and its pretty much identical features) but the BIM implementation throughout this industry will make a difference. So that brings me back to a question whether making the software more complex and harder to learn will ever allow for wider spreading of BIM idea. Again the complexity has originated in trying to fit square peg into a round hole which is a parallel to fitting 3D model to 2D symbolic drawings. Perhaps our workflow and way of thinking should change instead of asking for more fancy features which is in fact just patching up of an architectural workflow decaying concept. The future is bright but I am afraid we are still blind.

[Anonymous]

Hi
I have been a Revit user for some times now (4 years)..........don’t throw stones at me.
I have used Archicad 6 (some years ago) and Architectural Desktop. I am primarily a Autodesk product user, only because they keep buying up smaller software manufactures. But with that aside, moving to Revit was the best move that the company I work for ever made. The learning
curve was not that orneriest and very intuitive in its work flow .
Marking Family objects (elements) compared to object making in Archicad is a very straight forward process ......you not have to do any programming to achieve the desired element that you need to use in you project.

The extent of library items and resources available are too numerous to mention. The one thing that has surprised me about Archicad is that they had this market for such a long time and did nothing with it. They could have taken the ball and ran with it .........and who knows
they could have bought Revit technology before AutoDesk.

The most important thing is that you should not pledge blind allegiance to a software company and their product just because that is all you have used, but it should be the software that gets the
job done right and the quickest with fewer headaches.

The rendering engine in the past (accurender) in Revit was not all that good, but at least it come with one. Now they have one
of the most powerful rendering engines available (Mentalray).
It all sounds like a good add for Autodesk but i don’t care because it makes my life easer.

[Anonymous]

Djordje is right.

You dont know how to use Archicad.

For example

*I dont know how to use that handy keynotes system
*I am really stupid and dont know how to draw in pure 3D with Archicad ( i wonder why i know how to do it ....)
*I am really confused when i have to handle more than 10-20 SEO objects
*I am really stupid that i dont know how to easily make DETAILED calculations although i now well to use the property objects and scripts..
*I am also in complete dark, cause i still dont know how to draw a 3d polyline... fool me....
*Well i recently found out how well Archicad handles relationships...

I think i'll stop here....

Sorry to all offended by my opinion, political correctness is not my strong point. There is too much of it to the point of ridicule.

[Rob]

I have used Archicad 6 (some years ago) and Architectural Desktop.

Oh dear, dear. I bet you have used mostly ADT (which has been and still is one of the most atrocious mistakes in terms of AEC CAD). AC6 was released in 1998 (as a comparison the release date of Win98 and NT4.0 ruled the world woohoo...) when the average computer power and memory size was similar to today's iPod mate. That would answer your question why they haven't taken the ball too far because you would not have been able to afford that.

Marking Family objects (elements) compared to object making in Archicad is a very straight forward process ......you not have to do any programming to achieve the desired element that you need to use in you project.

this is a questionable statement discussed so many times on this forum that I am not going to elaborate on...

The most important thing is that you should not pledge blind allegiance to a software company and their product just because that is all you have used, but it should be the software that gets the
job done right and the quickest with fewer headaches.

exactly right. that's why I am using Archicad.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

David wrote:
..........

The most important thing is that you should not pledge blind allegiance to a software company and their product just because that is all you have used, but it should be the software that gets the
job done right and the quickest with fewer headaches.
.......

I do hope that you're aware of the multiple concentric levels of bewildering irony embedded in that statement coming from a user of Autodesk products with their tyrannical subscription and upgrade system, the non-backwards compatibility of their products, and the generally idiotic EULA stipulations that they make you sign onto without your knowledge.(try "legally" using "your" copy of AutoCAD in a country other than where you bought it)

You may not be blindly pledging allegiance to them, but you certainly are willingly bending over.



Normally, it's never a good idea to argue the merits of a product you use in comparison to another product; especially when doing so from an oblivious standpoint of general ignorance of that other product. There are lots of people who have used and continue to use both ArchiCAD and Revit on a daily basis to be able to hold an informed enough opinion to let you know that a lot of the statements you made are just plain silly.

Personally, I would just advise against comparing Revit 2009 to ArchiCAD v6.0 (which is what you're apparently doing); that would be a good place to start.

[Anonymous]

Goodness me i did not know that this trivial statement would raise so many heart felt comments.
I see from your user image that you have on a pair of goggles and a snorkel, is that so you can stick your head back in the sand.
(good one I just cracked my self up)
I think we all need to remember that you are trying to defend a software company how would not even know your name, let alone know you exist.
I agree that ADT was a painful experience and a short lived one. (not my choice)
It is only since that AutoDesk took over Revit technologies that ever one is using the term "BIM" ( in Archicad layman terms this means "Bloody Impressive Modeling" ©). which is what you get from Revit.
I see from going through the Archicad user comments on this site there is a very real concern about the future of Archicad as depicted by the guy whipping a dead horse.
I think the writing is on the wall for Archicad.