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Resell ArchiCAD licence

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi Everyone

Scenario: I am wanting to purchase a AC21 licence on the national buy, sell & swap site (Trademe). Central Innovation who are the local reseller here in NZ have stated that this is not possible as they will not allow me to upgrade the licence to the latest version (AC22) and change the licence into my name. Interestingly, they allowed me to do this almost a year ago without any questions asked. The reason/excuse now for not allowing this transaction is that their lawyers have stated that reselling licences breaches the ArchiCAD End User Licence Agreement.

The EULA states the following:
A: Commercial Mode
* Unless You make your own copy of the Software totally unusable, You may not sell, loan, distribute, cede,
sublicense, rent or lease or otherwise transfer or assign the right to use the Software, nor transfer or provide access to it by network for commercial use, either in whole or in part. You hereby accept that in case of any type of transfer of the Software by You, this Agreement automatically ceases to exist on the effective date of the transfer and You shall lose all rights arising from this Agreement.
* In case of a resold license, You, i.e. the purchaser of the resold Software, shall be required to re-register the Software with GRAPHISOFT's appointed local partners, pay the applicable fees and enter into the applicable Software Support Agreement in order to be entitled to any updates, upgrades, support, etc.


From what I can see it states that if the software is made unusable (I assume unusable by the seller) and that applicable fees are paid and a new agreement signed by the new owner of the licence, then this is allowable under the GS EULA and the reseller (Central Innovation) have no say in the matter? Frustratingly we cant contact Graphisoft direct as all correspondence is re-routed through the reseller.

I would be interested to know what others have encountered in these circumstances. Is our Reseller is being difficult, trying to over-ride the EULA, by not allowing the reselling of licences? More importantly, my company has treated the licences we have as 'assets' in the assurance that some day the licences could be on-sold to recoup the initial purchase costs. Does this mean the licences will need to be completely written off and treated as a 'loss'?

I have also heard that Vectorworks who is owned by Nemetschek, the parent company of Graphisoft, DOES allow the resale of VW licences without any questions asked.

Thanks

Bazza
AC22 6021
Win 10 Pro 1903
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1 ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Solution
Marton Kiss
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
mikas wrote:
We are not buying or selling at the moment, but it would be nice to know for sure, though. What is the current policy of selling your AC license? Allowed, or not allowed?
Hi Mikas, allowed for sure, selling your perpetual Archicad license continues to be an option.

In case you would sell your license, make sure to involve your local Graphisoft partner in the process, to find out the required steps and conditions based on the license type in question.
Marton Kiss
Director, Global Customer Engagement
GRAPHISOFT

View solution in original post

20 REPLIES 20

Podolsky
Newcomer
Yes, I did hear that officially you cannot resale ArchiCAD license. Like if you bought it - it's yours forever. If your friend wants to use it - you can give him you license, but it still going to be yours. Any reselling / renting are illegal.

Maybe it's better to have discussion with serious lawyer company, if you think this is not fair.

Juliogp
Newcomer
Just wondering how did you go with this? I’m looking into transferring my license to someone else here in NZ too.

Gerald Hoffman
Contributor
I don't know if this is still the case but I have purchased someone else's license in Canada and was something that was done by others that I know as well. The purchaser would then have the option of upgrading to the current version or not.

Cheers,
Gerald
"The simplification of anything is always sensational" GKC
AC 25-3011 USA, CadImage Tools
2019 MacBook Pro 16" w/ AMD Radeon Pro 5600M GPU
OS X 11.6
2.4 Ghz 8 core i9, 64 GB RAM
27" LG 5K Monitor

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
It is best to ask your local reseller/distributor to find out the exact conditions in your country.
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
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Loving Archicad since 1995

Jere
Newcomer
Gerald wrote:
I don't know if this is still the case but I have purchased someone else's license in Canada and was something that was done by others that I know as well. The purchaser would then have the option of upgrading to the current version or not.

Cheers,
Same here (also in Canada.) I bought a license a few years ago. Graphisoft was completely fine with it. I think there could be a transfer fee, but it was waived because I agreed to add a subscription to the licence.
ArchiCAD 24-5000; Windows 10; Intel i5-3570K; 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX 960

mikas
Advocate
In Finland it used to be possible to sell a license. Essentially it was a transfer of a license. In addition to the initial and mutually agreed on purchase price You had to pay the transfer fee, register as a new owner, and the new owner/licensee had to agree to pay for a subscription. Can't remember if it was a year or 2 years of SSA.

It was fine for us that way, really. We there the buyers of the software at that time. Last time I asked about that our local representative said that changes in Graphisoft EULA had made it illegal to sell an AC license. They posted it as a news tip too on their site at that time.

Is it really so? Or is it just how you/we/all interpret the EULA differently?
AC24, Rhino6/7+GrasshopperMac Pro DP 3,33GHz/128GB/RVII/10.14.6 • HP Z440 E5-1650v3/256GB/RVII/W10Pro

Barry Kelly
Moderator
mikas wrote:
Is it really so? Or is it just how you/we/all interpret the EULA differently?

I am no lawyer, but my reading of the ELUA (quoted in the first post) says that you can sell your licence so long as you meet those requirements.
If you couldn't do it, I am sure it would simply say "You can not resell your licence".

However, by the time you purchase the license, pay transfer fees, and new subscription, and possibly have to pay to upgrade to the latest version, is it cheaper/easier to just by a new license that will be the latest version and I assume comes with the first year of support (subscription) included?


Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
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mikas
Advocate
We did save a good amount when we transfered the licenses. And the seller was happy to not loose all of the original purchase price - which was not a little money by no means. Of course the price is negotiable between the parties. And GS / local partner got their transfer fees in between.

I'll paste the relevant part (in my opinion) here with bold and underlined highlights of the main concerns of mine. I see it so that we need a written promise from ArchiCAD to sell a license. If they are not willing to give you permission, you are stuck with your licenses. Your amount of spent original purchase price is gone.

The first highlight at 5.1 tells us we need to get a permission from Graphisoft to sell our license.
The second highlight at 5.2 tells us the terms to follow IF we were allowed to sell our license by Graphisoft.

Now, we have been told by local representative that Graphisoft is not willing to give a permission to sell a license anymore. They could do that, but they are not going to, not from now on. I am a little bit confused reading that it's ok for others living in some other countries, but it's not ok in our country. This was something like about a year ago when they informed everybody about the change.

We are not buying or selling at the moment, but it would be nice to know for sure, though. What is the current policy of selling your AC license? Allowed, or not allowed?
5. RESTRICTIONS

5.1. GENERAL PROVISIONS - APPLICABLE TO COMMERCIAL MODE, TRIAL MODE, DEMO MODE AND EDUCATIONAL MODE OF THE SOFTWARE, TO THE ADD-ONS TO THE SOFTWARE AND TO THE GOODIES TO THE SOFTWARE:

* You may not sell, loan, distribute, cede, sublicense, rent or lease or otherwise transfer or assign the right to use the Software, nor transfer or provide access to it by network for commercial use, either in whole or in part without the prior written consent of GRAPHISOFT.

* You are expressly prohibited from decompiling, disassembling, reverse engineering, or reducing the Software for any purpose whatsoever.

* You may not unlock or otherwise attempt to discover the source code or underlying algorithms of the Software or attempt to do any of the foregoing in relation to the object code of the Software.

* You may not use the Software for development, compilation, debugging and similar design-time purposes.

* You are expressly prohibited from adapting, modifying, translating or creating any derivative works based in whole or in part on the Software, and from merging the Software into any other software.

* You may not copy any written materials accompanying the Software.

* You are expressly prohibited from dividing Your license and reselling part(s) of it;

* You may use all elements of the Software as integral components thereof exclusively for the purposes of performing the Software's functionalities set forth by GRAPHISOFT.

* Unless You have a separate Service Provider License Agreement in force, You are expressly prohibited from providing 'Software as a Service' (e.g.: 'ARCHICAD as a Service') for third parties or other similar services which involve the reassignment of our software licenses to third parties e.g.: remarketing, reselling services or cloud services.

* You are prohibited from circumventing or supplying a system in order to circumvent the TPM of the Software and using the Software in any other unauthorized manner.

In case of infringement of any provisions of this chapter, you expressly acknowledge that it constitutes material breach of this Agreement giving the right to GRAPHISOFT to immediately terminate this Agreement, and GRAPHISOFT will take the necessary measures in order that the infringement be terminated and to enforce your compliance with the above provisions. In addition, GRAPHISOFT shall be entitled to enforce payment for its damages as well as other rights and claims under the governing laws in force resulting from your breach of this Agreement.

5.2. SPECIAL PROVISIONS RELEVANT TO COMMERCIAL MODE, TRIAL MODE, EDUCATIONAL MODE AND DEMO MODE OF THE SOFTWARE:

A: Commercial Mode

* Unless You make your own copy of the Software totally unusable, You may not sell, loan, distribute, cede, sublicense, rent or lease or otherwise transfer or assign the right to use the Software, nor transfer or provide access to it by network for commercial use, either in whole or in part. You hereby accept that in case of any type of transfer of the Software by You, this Agreement automatically ceases to exist on the effective date of the transfer and You shall lose all rights arising from this Agreement.

* In case of a resold license, You, i.e. the purchaser of the resold Software, shall be required to re-register the Software with GRAPHISOFT's appointed local partners, pay the applicable fees and enter into the applicable Software Support Agreement in order to be entitled to any updates, upgrades, support, etc.
edit. link to EULA:
https://graphisoft.com/legal/license-agreements/archicad
AC24, Rhino6/7+GrasshopperMac Pro DP 3,33GHz/128GB/RVII/10.14.6 • HP Z440 E5-1650v3/256GB/RVII/W10Pro

Solution
Marton Kiss
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
mikas wrote:
We are not buying or selling at the moment, but it would be nice to know for sure, though. What is the current policy of selling your AC license? Allowed, or not allowed?
Hi Mikas, allowed for sure, selling your perpetual Archicad license continues to be an option.

In case you would sell your license, make sure to involve your local Graphisoft partner in the process, to find out the required steps and conditions based on the license type in question.
Marton Kiss
Director, Global Customer Engagement
GRAPHISOFT

View solution in original post

Brett Brown
Contributor
Marton wrote:

Hi Mikas, allowed for sure, selling your perpetual Archicad license continues to be an option.

In case you would sell your license, make sure to involve your local Graphisoft partner in the process, to find out the required steps and conditions based on the license type in question.
Hi Marton, perhaps you can explain to many of us why the local Graphisoft Partner (Central Innovation in AUS & NZ) flatly refuses to transfer Teamwork Licenses from a couple of years ago?
Are they doing this against Graphisoft Partner rules?
Please let us know.
Imac, Mojave, AC 20, AC 25 Solo UKI, Vectorworks Architect 2021, Revit LT 2021

mikas
Advocate
Marton wrote:
allowed for sure
Thank You Very Much for Your answer.
And the answer was my preferred one absolutely.
AC24, Rhino6/7+GrasshopperMac Pro DP 3,33GHz/128GB/RVII/10.14.6 • HP Z440 E5-1650v3/256GB/RVII/W10Pro

AlexM
Contributor
Hi Brett,

I’m following this thread with interest, although I expect we won’t get an answer.

The extreme license costs for purchase and SSA here down under (CI territory) already make it difficult; combined with the outright hostile approach to licence flexibility makes me question our ‘investment’.

I know a couple of other smaller practices that have converted their license to dongles to give themselves some flexibility. Kind of crazy to have to resort to that in this day and age (and the dongles come yet at another inflated cost themselves), but it might be an option your seller could take.

Personally, if I need to expand the practice again, it’s cheaper just to change to Revit.
22 / 24 / 25 Win10 & OSX

Gerald Hoffman
Contributor
Brett,
I don't know the situation down under but on it's face your comment isn't logical. If you go the Autodesk route you are left with no option except upgrade every year as I understand it. At least with Archicad our licenses are still perpetual which means you can opt out of upgrading if the features of the current release that you have work for you.

Cheers from up above
Gerald
"The simplification of anything is always sensational" GKC
AC 25-3011 USA, CadImage Tools
2019 MacBook Pro 16" w/ AMD Radeon Pro 5600M GPU
OS X 11.6
2.4 Ghz 8 core i9, 64 GB RAM
27" LG 5K Monitor

Brett Brown
Contributor
Gerald wrote:
Brett,
I don't know the situation down under but on it's face your comment isn't logical. If you go the Autodesk route you are left with no option except upgrade every year as I understand it. At least with Archicad our licenses are still perpetual which means you can opt out of upgrading if the features of the current release that you have work for you.

Cheers from up above
Actually, it's AlexM you need to be addressing.

But to your point re Revit, Revit LT ( $700NZD yearly) is all you need to do Residential construction if budget is your focus.
To AlexM, If you are on a Mac Vectorworks is a good choice and they do have Perpetual licenses which you can buy second-hand licenses at a very good discount. Which is the point of this thread, seems like everything Archicad, depends on where you live to get a good deal.

[price discussion removed by moderator]
Imac, Mojave, AC 20, AC 25 Solo UKI, Vectorworks Architect 2021, Revit LT 2021

Gerald Hoffman
Contributor
Hey Brett,

All I can say is WOW!! That does seem to be out of line with prices in Canada and the US which are the only ones I know. I don't understand why this would be either unless the dealers in Australia have to pay more from Graphisoft. I feel your pain but I am pretty sure that if we had to pay those kind of prices in Canada there would be a lot fewer subscribers to the SSA.

I think I am going to go cry into a beer on your behalf right now. Cheers,
Gerald
"The simplification of anything is always sensational" GKC
AC 25-3011 USA, CadImage Tools
2019 MacBook Pro 16" w/ AMD Radeon Pro 5600M GPU
OS X 11.6
2.4 Ghz 8 core i9, 64 GB RAM
27" LG 5K Monitor

AlexM
Contributor
Thanks Gerald, with Brett providing the prices you might be able to see why the idea of a perpetual licence isn't so great down here. Basically it's 3-5 years before breakeven with the Revit cost. In reality its even more as we can flex up and down with the Revit licences which is pretty cost effective (Archicad does have the 'rental licences', but as a comparison 6 months of Archicad licence here is more than a full year of the whole Autodesk suite).

I have a couple of students who come in at various times to our office. A second hand licence or 2, even if we leave them a couple of versions behind for a year, would let me train them up and have them able to be a part of a 'real' office environment. There's absolutely no way we can afford to shell out $20k+ for a couple of casual students software! This also factors into expanding the office quickly - it's a very significant cost.
22 / 24 / 25 Win10 & OSX

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
[price discussion removed by moderator]
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
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Gordana
Community Manager
Community Manager
Brett wrote:
Marton wrote:

Hi Mikas, allowed for sure, selling your perpetual Archicad license continues to be an option.

In case you would sell your license, make sure to involve your local Graphisoft partner in the process, to find out the required steps and conditions based on the license type in question.
Hi Marton, perhaps you can explain to many of us why the local Graphisoft Partner (Central Innovation in AUS & NZ) flatly refuses to transfer Teamwork Licenses from a couple of years ago?
Are they doing this against Graphisoft Partner rules?
Please let us know.
Hi Brett,

Let me try answer to your question raised to Marton.

Graphisoft works closely with reseller partners worldwide and rules of collaboration are well defined. Both Graphisoft and Partners comply with EULA rules and do our best to elevate customers. End-users shall also comply with EULA which allows end-users to sell their license (with the prior written consent of Graphisoft).
Regarding pricing, definition of the local market prices and the pricing policy is the right and responsibility of the local selling entities considering various local country specific factors, and we firmly believe that the end-user prices reflect the value offering of our products and services.
We believe that every pricing discussion is a confidential matter of the partner and end-user, as it might include client specific services, and I warmly recommend to reach out to Central Innovation to follow-up on your concerns.
Thank you for your understanding!

Community Manager
GRAPHISOFT

Gerald Hoffman
Contributor
Regarding pricing, definition of the local market prices and the pricing policy is the right and responsibility of the local selling entities considering various local country specific factors, and we firmly believe that the end-user prices reflect the value offering of our products and services.
Hi Gordana,
I am sure you do believe that. However that doesn't necessarily make it so. I am sure as it seems to be from this thread that quite a few users would disagree with your assessment. The problem would be that if there is only one reseller in a given country setting pricing there is a actual monopoly so users have little choice.

I for one am happy I am in Canada as long as the resellers here continue with a fair pricing policy. Of course I would always wish to pay less but do realize everyone has to make a living.

Cheers,
Gerald
"The simplification of anything is always sensational" GKC
AC 25-3011 USA, CadImage Tools
2019 MacBook Pro 16" w/ AMD Radeon Pro 5600M GPU
OS X 11.6
2.4 Ghz 8 core i9, 64 GB RAM
27" LG 5K Monitor

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