Shift to a subscription model - your questions are welcome

[Akos Pfemeter]

Dear Community,

You may have already read the press release or the Insights post about our strategic shift to a subscription model. 

Here is a quick summary of the news:

BUDAPEST, April 2, 2024—Graphisoft, the leading Building Information Modeling (BIM) software solution developer for architecture and multidisciplinary design, today announced that, as part of its strategic shift to a sustainable subscription software delivery model, perpetual licenses will be gradually phased out by the end of 2025. This change does not affect the delivery of Software Service Agreement (SSA)/Forward subscription services to existing customers. 

Archicad perpetual and SSA/Forward licenses will be available for new customers through December 31, 2024, and to existing customers through December 31, 2025. Starting in 2026, Archicad will be available only through subscription. Active SSA/Forward contracts will continue to be serviced beyond 2025. Alternatively, SSA/Forward customers can convert to Archicad Collaborate subscriptions at the same price as SSA/Forward. This offer is designed to help existing SSA/Forward subscribers take full advantage of the Archicad Collaborate subscription, which combines award-winning Archicad for architectural design with BIMx and BIMcloud SaaS for fast, efficient, secure, real-time access to shared projects.

Please ask your questions and share your thoughts here -- Graphisoft's expert team will try and provide answer to all sorts of questions you may have!
Thank you.
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Edit by Moderator:  here is the link to the evolving information/FAQ page about this announcement:

https://graphisoft.com/convert-ssa-forward-to-archicad-collaborate/

[Francois_MCD]

Hi @Akos Pfemeter 

I have not yet read & explored all the info about the cloud licensing and the shift to a subscription model...

But right now I have mixed feelings:

1. I recognize & understand Graphisoft is bringing this method of licensing to no doubt, answer the needs of a section of the existing user base & new markets.
2. On the other hand, most users have opted for Archicad explicitly for it's distinct perpetual license + SSA/Forward offer.
   Many practices have been built on this principle.

Before diving into the details of the impact of these pending changes, I am acutely aware how all tech & infrastructure is not accessible on equal basis in all regions of the world (and want Graphisoft to also consider this?).

I am based in South Africa and we are definitely not alone with this issue:
The world have become "one place" via the internet, we all know that have even accelerated since the Covid lockdowns. So we do work for global clients & with global partners.

But many of these people we speak with can not believe / grasp the realities we face as direct result of extremely low quality & persistent intermittent internet connectivity in Africa as a whole.

In South Africa this is further aggravate by our "loadshedding" = relentless electricity blackouts 2-3 times daily 2.5/4hours at a time (by our national government grid supplier Eskom) ongoing for the past 5+years & getting worse.

(just think about this for a minute) 

128 days of load shedding in 2023 — in the 1st four months alone – compared with 206 days of blackouts in the whole of 2022!

 One of numerous sources: https://techcentral.co.za/this-years-load-shedding-is-about-to-top-2022s-and-its-only-may/225399/

Also read: 283 days! total electricity blackouts by December 2023

THIS IS NO JOKE. 

All alternative electricity solutions, city scale, corporate scale & household scale, are imported. Needless to say, self sufficient electricity supply is not affordable to many businesses & households. Even our internet service providers & mobile network suppliers do not manage to keep all infrastructure running during repeated electricity blackouts. All this excludes the impact of subsequent breakdowns of equipment, further extending blackouts.

No electricity, nation wide means... no internet or mobile coverage for extended periods. 

Our practices & communities & households are strained under the impact of lowered productivity and no real means to compensate for these resource losses.

For us in particular, it could mean that licenses with the total dependence of internet access is going to be further detrimental (unless Graphisoft will continue to build the system & options in such a way that we can continue to work offline?).

[Eric Milberger]

Even in the US this is an issue - I spent 3 years at a JOBsite in the middle of the desert in Phoenix.  Right next to the interstate - NO internet,  We were required to use only Verizon hubs.  $3000 per month for one user.  We had to communicate across the internet to our office for all design work

[Karl Ottenstein]

To everyone who has commented so far  I want to first respond to react to a couple of things that have been said so far.  And, please, I'm not being a Graphisoft apologist ... I'm as unhappy about this as you are...

1.  As to Marton's comment from a year ago that they were not planning on subscription-only in the future:  12 months is a long time in business / economic planning.  (Hey, it's 4 quarters! 🤣 ).  Marton has always been one of my favorite people at Graphisoft and kind, competent, honest, understanding, listening and aware are some of my adjectives for him - but never deceptive.  He has input into these kinds of decisions, but they are made by people higher up in the food chain - such as Akos and the new CEO (about whom we know nothing yet).   I have no doubt that Marton had no intention of misleading any of us a year ago!

2.  As to the Graphisoft announcement, again I'm not happy, but do find it a time-generous heads-up warning of what is planned - compared to every other software that I use that just instantly (or within months) became subscription-only with all prior perpetual licenses becoming useless relatively quickly due to operating systems incompatibility.  That new customers have 9 months and existing customers have 21 months to purchase additional perpetual licenses - and that perpetual licenses will still be supported - is better than anything else I've dealt with.

I would like to see some clarity on the level of support that SSA/Forward customers with perpetual licenses will receive (with some guarantee on  the number of years and cost relative to subscription) ... and if that will include all operating system updates and bug fixes that the subscription version receives.

For those of us with perpetual licenses that we've had for years, the SSA/Forward price has basically been our "subscription" as we have long ago amortized the purchase price of our license(s).  If, in the future, SSA/Forward begins to cost nearly as much or more than a subscription (considering that subscription includes BIMcloud SaaS - the easy to use, fully hosted and supported version of BIMcloud requiring no local IT person), then switching to subscription will make sense (if it makes sense economically vs competitors).

For anyone purchasing new perpetual licenses in the next 9 (new customer) or 21 (existing customer) months... the high cost of that perpetual license will take many years to amortize with the added SSA/Forward cost ... and those licenses could be a foolish investment if the SSA/Forward price does not remain lower than a subscription for 5 to 10 years.  We are given no info or guarantees on that price differential, and so it is hard to recommend that anyone purchase a perpetual license unless they intend to remain on AC 28 or below for a very long time (which means running on a Windows machine, since Graphisoft seems incapable of making each release compatible with the annual macOS).

Particularly with the move to bundling BIMcloud SaaS as part of the Collaborate subscription, Graphisoft seems to be leaving solo and small firms behind as intended customers.  (This past year, the Collaborate subscription was the same price as just an Archicad subscription.)  While the Collaborate subscription is a good value for a larger firm that is using BIMcloud since they would otherwise have to rent another seat of BIMcloud SaaS - it is not a good value at all for a small firm and I expect very many people here to be looking at alternative software.  What might have been word of mouth advertising for Graphisoft will turn into word of mouth unhappiness shared with colleagues.

So... a welcome heads up with a big time window on what is coming (better now than a month before the change)... but not enough information, really, to help people decide what to do today.

Karl

[Martin Jules]

Does a software company have to follow what the majority of software companies do? The short answer is no. Does a BIM software user have to use that of the most commonly used by BIM software users? The short answer is still no. Now that the logic is going to change, it will be up to Graphisoft to start counting the results of its choice from January 1, 2026.

[DGSketcher]

---

@Karl Ottenstein wrote:

While the Collaborate subscription is a good value for a larger firm that is using BIMcloud since they would otherwise have to rent another seat of BIMcloud SaaS - it is not a good value at all for a small firm and I expect very many people here to be looking at alternative software.  What might have been word of mouth advertising for Graphisoft will turn into word of mouth unhappiness shared with colleagues.

---

I think that is the fundamental point that GS are missing, although one might expect the accountants to have done their sums on the potential number of lost users, but perhaps they can't see past the expected balance sheet.

What really irritates me about this thread is in true Graphisoft style, they got rid of a CEO by mutual agreement, I assume because things weren't going well, but the first high level announcement we see is a well & truly self interested post on finance. Not a hint of HR has gone because we realise things aren't great with AC and we expect to address the growing backlog of problems, just a heads up that we are coming for your money. My safety net is already in place, just waiting to see if the SSA / Forward charge for AC28 stacks up. 🕰 Hint: a 50% compensatory discount could save day...

[furtonb]

Out of curiosity: what is your safety net?

[DGSketcher]

@furtonb Well as per your other post in this thread, I also come from the time of Rotring pens. So I kind of took a step back to look at the overall complexity of AC and contrasted it with the simplicity of Sketchup, considered the lack of instancing, all the UI gymnastics, buried menus,  general display issues etc in AC and then looked at the price of entry to SU, it wasn't a hard decision.

No they aren't directly comparable, the workflow is very different, but for my needs SU is capable enough.  

I am sure there are AC users here who would throw mud at SU all day for what it lacks, but even so there also seems to be a fair number of AC users on their forum using SU in parallel and on large scale projects.

For me the core difference is, SU thinks it is a modelling tool, AC thinks it is the Architect & Engineer.

[mthd]

I have the utmost respect for SU and it could easily be developed to be much more.

The trouble with drafting pens is when the ink gets stuck and you have to do a bit of extra work to clean up the pens.

The extra work you need to do to learn how to use AC and then all the troubleshooting, is it really worth all the extra effort ? My eyesight isn’t the best so 3D CAD keeps you in the game longer no matter what brand you decide to use.

Subscriptions do not suit everyone and one day these big companies may wake up to themselves and could even start offering PL’s again. (That is the logical conclusion for small business from what we have learned from this post so far.)

I am simply not going to play “feeding the parking meter.” I will change if need be, to a CAD company that will offer PL’s indefinitely. 

Please take notice GS when SSA/PL stops I will go else where for my 3D CAD solution.

[thesleepofreason]

Another question without a clear answer is how technical support which now is done by local distributors through SSA will be handled (and to a lesser degree any discounts offered by the distributor on training courses or other consultation services)? Seeing how GS are unwilling/unable to provide a proper online support channel as it is, I can see a risk of worsening support accessibility. And that is without taking into account any secondary business effects on distributors due to the change or decreased quality of user community activity due to influx of low commitment subscription users and outflux of long time users.

[Botonis]

Everything will clear up when we know the price difference between  current SSA/Forward  subsription and the new subscription model.

Taking in consideration the changes between those two it is not clear if this is going to be an  improvement or a step backwards.

Although I have a perpetual license I am not sure whether I have to start crying or laughing!!!  

[Bricklyne Clarence]

I'm only going to comment on the last point brought up regarding people seemingly being misled about a year ago over the company's intention to switch to a subscription-only model. 

Now I'm not saying Marton Kiss set out to intentionally mislead people and I'll take it at the word of those who know him that this was never the case.
But the end result is the same. 

People feel misled one way or another and whether that was by accident (on account of his not knowing but still giving people the information that this wasn't going to happen), or by design (as in his higher-ups knowing all along and either giving him the wrong information which he then relayed, or worse still,.....not giving him the information but letting him convey the wrong information), it doesn't matter to the end receiver of that misinformation (i.e. us, the users).

Both scenarios paint a grim picture of the goings-on behind the scenes at Graphisoft.

I find it hard to believe that a company of this stature and size wouldn't have known in advance (as in,....YEARS in advance) that the switch to subscription-only was in their future, to the extent that it happened on them on a whim or unexpectedly in such a manner that would reasonably explain the whole,... "Marton himself didn't know a year ago, and therefore he wasn't really lying when he said we were never going to be subscription-only" situation and make it make logical sense.

Just as I - as I'm sure, many others on here would - find it perplexing to think that they'd send someone like Marton to inform customers with information that they (his higher-ups,... or even him) know not to be true, and which affects the decisions they make in how they run their own practices and their business futures.

Somewhere in here, there's a lie.

Either it was to Marton, or to the people that were assured that what we're now experiencing today was not going to be a reality of Graphisoft's future.
Or maybe it's the notion that all of this is happening by pure happenstance and unexpectedly,....due to current "unforeseen" market conditions, or something......

Ultimately it doesn't matter.

We're here now, and the purpose of this thread I suppose is to get people to accept the reality and get 'comfortable' with it, rather than any attempt at serious dialog to understand the "why" and the "how".

The anger is justifiable.

Besides which, we know the "why"

There have been by my count, and in my opinion, 4 consecutive weak, watered down, underwhelming version releases (some would say 5 and I wouldn't argue with that), that have seen Graphisoft starkly shift away from what used to be the core purpose of this program in providing an advanced ARCHITECTURAL design and documentation software (emphasis always on the "ARCHI", because god knows, Graphisoft themselves seem to have forgotten), to now them chasing what we're assured is a modern marketbase of other customers that they deem are critical for their future survival, even as we (the rest of us) have to put up with a lower return on our investment.

And now the information as that the right to use it, is going to be enforced going forward and entirely dependent on their end with no guarantees on quality, or value or imrpovement on tools, and seemingly no incentive on their part to ever do so in the future - especially if they can always be assured they'll still get your subscription fees at the end of the year anyway.

I would hope that someone would make that make sense for me, but at this stage what does it matter?

A more decent shift would have been if this decision was coming after a version or two they released where they showed they were truly committed to fixing the tools that have been lagging and improving in the areas they've been ignoring, but to choose to do so after 4 weak version releases in my opinion just smacks of utter disdain for your users.

That's just my opinion.

[Jp1138]

Your are completely right.

I think everyone paying attention knew this movement was coming, if not this year maybe next or whatever. Any answer in the line of "were not planning on subscription-only in the future", I took as it was being answered "from a certain point of view", or "right now" it´s not written in stone when this will happen. It was a matter of when, not if. But everything Graphisoft and Nemetschek have been doing in the last years was clearly pointing in this direction (Allplan and Vectorworks becoming subscription based, tying some characteristics to SSA, cloud licences...) Not a chance this has come out of nowhere.

DDSCAD users are the next in line for next year...

[Bricklyne Clarence]

---

@Jp1138 wrote:

.......

DDSCAD users are the next in line for next year...

---

They've pretty much just confirmed this in the just-posted FAQ

[Francois_MCD]

I agree with Karl & other's comments:

We are nearly all coming from perpetual (paid upfront) + SSA/Forward subscription (paid annually/monthly towards automatic next release upgrades).

On this basis, we receive license to design, manage & build our client's projects using the software features from that version and back.

(Archicad's backwards compatibility are ONE OF THE differentiators in the BIM authoring arena - please don't ever! change that?)
The principle mechanism of the license was (USB) & is (Soft) a piece of software hosted on the device.

(I've seen the Soft licenses hugely improve both the user experience & license management and Graphisoft's support channels & staff when delivering, replacing & troubleshooting license problems).
In +/-2019 Graphisoft started the Cloud Licensing system.

(an aspect I still don't clearly understand the practical impact of potential problems of, not having used it much until now. With our internet infrastructure challenges, I have seen license malfunction & work stoppages on the BIMcloud SaaS we had for at least 1 year - however fantastic BIMcloud SaaS still is in my view).

Make no mistake, I've seen Graphisoft's epic effort since v6.5 (2000) from all angles [as user, reseller, support tech & trainer] to maintain delivering valuable & sought after software features to support us, users that face an ever changing industry, multi-compatible operating systems, ever growing collaboration demands driven by BIM standards & Sustainability initiatives, counter acting license piracy and so many more... #Kudos! & #Thanks

But yes, dropping users in HOT WATER with effectively REMOVING MEP in v27 from the user's capabilities after building & expanding it's use over many versions + users maintaining SSA/Forward subscriptions... that's bad news losing core functionality like that without due warning on live ongoing projects to clients (forcing users to stay stuck on old versions). AC26 release was in some ways more disappointing in terms of user expectations on ROI. These type of failures have direct impact, and surely must have been anticipated. So this goes two ways, the one can not be without the other and we all have & are working together to make this work on both "shores".

I can see where Graphisoft is coming from with this "shift to a subscription model". From our end at this stage with the very limited info available, we might not all see where Graphisoft is going short / medium / long term with the licensing. It is clear as day, the info given is nowhere near sufficient for users in ALL practice sizes to make informed strategic & financial business decisions for the short / medium / long term. In fact, in our fast paced world today there are actually no such thing as short term decisions in business - we have to cover all the bases now to set the best change for success tomorrow & for days - years to come. So it is for us as it is for Graphisoft & Nemetschek.

Another key thing here is the subscription model that "assumes" all users would find ROI from the extra cost for BIMcloud SaaS bundled in ¯\_(:|)_/¯ especially if it's Graphisoft' intention to phase out continuous current version, perpetual licenses that we built our practices on for years & decades.

What will the comparative cost be for paying 3/6 years upfront for a perpetual license + SSA/Forward VS a subscription license? 

We need details? Paying this much upfront might simply not be affordable to all users... what do we do then if there are no options?

We've seen AC16 & older become obsolete, then again AC21 where Archicad is not operating either systems / hardware (and I know it becomes technically impossible to solve at some point). So staying on an Archicad version for too long is not a medium / long term option. At some point we have to upgrade to continue work & business or get off Archicad (or any other software out there today).

Perhaps it is not as bad as we anticipate now, we just don't know (this should be easy to solve). If Graphisoft can answer our & other's questions with detailed info, considering everyone's scenarios and maintain their commitment to the users that brought us all to this point, then all will be ok again and we can all continue with our work & businesses as before (just better)... I hope? Proper info from all user's perspectives, answers to questions would be easy to do.

[Andy Thomson]

This is a key consideration. With increasing global energy demand, increasing energy costs, carbon taxes, the politics of division and a lack of continued investment in infrastructure, global mass-migration, extreme local weather events, energy and communication intermittency is an emergent global issue even in the USA, Canada and EU. Communication infrastructure resilience has been an issue across Canada due to monopolies and concentration. I see this getting worse before it gets better. We really do need to operate effectively offline, air-gapped at times, irrespective of the quality or state of communication infrastructure. Anything less is a failure to consider technical resiliency. 

[Anita_Slocombe]

When I spoke to my rep, the cost was astronomical. Sure, let me transfer you to the collaboration subscription model for your SSForward fees of 2.5k. Then, after that, it's proposed to be nearly 6k from 2026 per year with no clear indication of how much percentage-wise it will increase per year 🤬😡🔥 as many small businesses I planned seven years in advance to make sure the upfront cost I paid for Archicad put me in a better, place financially. So now I’m two years in, and I could have stayed with Revit!

Not only did I lose a year to setting up Archicad, but now I’m in debt financially as a small business. Many will be worse off 

[Martin Jules]

I am so sorry for your situation, and I understand you! Be patient! Autodesk has good marketing specialists. I am sure they will find a solution for this market segment in the coming months that Graphisoft is currently ignoring.

[jl_lt]

This forum is where Autodesk comes to learn 😂

[Barry Kelly]

@Anita_Slocombe 

If you purchased a perpetual license (i.e. you own the license outright and you are paying for SSA/Forward support), you do not have to convert to the subscription payments.

Subscription is for those people that do not want the huge outlay to purchase the perpetual license, they will effectively be renting the license.

From the end of this year, people will no longer be able to purchase a perpetual license.

If you already own one, then you will have until the end of 2025 to purchase more perpetual licenses should you need to.

After that there is no choice, it will all be subscription.

But existing perpetual licenses can remain on the lower cost SSA/Forward support.

So far, I have not heard of any end time for SSA/Forward support.

And if ever it does end, you will then have the choice to take up subscription, or stop support all together and stay on the current version at that time.

This is my understanding of what is happening.

So if you have already purchased the license, and do not need the extra BIMCloud licensing, don't switch to subscription.

Speak to you rep again to confirm this is the case - you do not have to switch to subscription.

If they tell you otherwise, please report back here.

Barry.

[leandrolopes]

Graphisoft Brazil has made zero announcements about this, It was almost kept under the rug. No representatives, no trainers, no one at all talked about it till recently. A huge user base are learning about it just now and most of them have no idea. We do not had the time to prepare. Some of us indeed could see it coming and were preparing to buy our first licenses in 2025... That won`t be possible even though we have being renting the software through the adaptation and migration time. 
For what I understand only those who already own a perpetual license will be able to buy it in 2025, correct?
If that`s the case, we are just going to migrate again, maybe it is time to give Archline, SketchUp or even the opensource a chance. This was a really shade move.

[Barry Kelly]

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@leandrolopes wrote:

For what I understand only those who already own a perpetual license will be able to buy it in 2025, correct?
If that`s the case, we are just going to migrate again, maybe it is time to give Archline, SketchUp or even the opensource a chance. This was a really shade move.

---

According to the FAQs, perpetual licences will be available for purchase until the end of 2025.

I was of the belief that this was only for users that already own a perpetual license.

If you don't already own one, I thought you only have until the end of this year to purchase one.

But it seems the SSA/Forward support will be available until the end of 2025.

So maybe you can still purchase a perpetual license next year.

But check this with your local distributor as they are the only ones that can sell it to you.

The online store is collaboration only as far as I know.

FAQs and other information can be found here ... https://graphisoft.com/convert-ssa-forward-to-archicad-collaborate/

Barry.