ac 12 'core only' question

[Anonymous]

For those who have seen AC12 already - I'm really glad to see the new core only option and would like to make good use of it. One thingI'm wondering though, is whether there is any mechanism to deal with door and window casing?

Specifically, if you are set to core only and have doors/windows with casing, the casing will be floating out away from the wall. What we really need is a core only option for the doors and windows, i guess. How is this dealt with in AC12?

[David Shorter]

I would have thought that core only would require the the complete door or window to be omitted leaving just the opening......
Just a thought.....
Comments anyone?

[Anonymous]

David wrote:
I would have thought that core only would require the the complete door or window to be omitted leaving just the opening......
Just a thought.....
Comments anyone?

I there are two ways to think of it. One is the strict 'core only' approach designed to isolate the structural components. That approach would mean that windows and doors would be omitted. It seems to me that this is more suited to larger or commercial projects.

The other approach would be more oriented toward typical residential projects and the drawings produced for them. For me this means having the core only option to isolate the core of the walls but still showing doors and windows. This creates the typical dimensioned plans for the contractors. Then for interior planning and finish plans, the entire wall system as well as casings would be shown.

For my residential work, that's what I want to be able to do. I guess what would be best is if, for doors and windows, one could specify that the trims are finishes and then whether the frames are to be considered core items (and displayed under 'core only') or not core items, in which case they would be omitted from 'core only' views.

What do others think?

[David Shorter]

Chris you're right that this is probably more suited to the BIM approach (multiple disciplines working on the same virtual model) or is that not the definition of BIM?
Has anyone developed a method of giving ownership of a structural wall to the Structural Engineer whilst retaining control over the door or window in that wall?

[Anonymous]

New "core-only" may be great, (We'll soon see), but...
What I'd like to see is a MVO option that shows,(by line type) (see modified MVO below),whether the opening is a window or door, as requested by my current structural engineer. Better yet, how about additional option for showing what type of bearing capacity, by showing option for, say; double 2x's, 4x's, 6X's etc. on either side of opening?
Bier

[Karl Ottenstein]

Bier wrote:
New "core-only" may be great, (We'll soon see), but...
What I'd like to see is a MVO option that shows,(by line type) (see modified MVO below),whether the opening is a window or door, as requested by my current structural engineer.

Maybe my brain is not working, but why would it matter what kind of opening you have (window or door) when determining structural elements? Isn't an opening an opening?

If you are sending dwg files to your engineer, you can let him sort out your request. In the dwg translator, under Attributes > Layers > Methods, you can choose to have Window linework placed in a specific layer and door linework placed in a different layer. The engineer (or you if you have autocad) can then make each of those layers use a specific line type.

??

Karl

[Anonymous]

Hi Karl
Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
First, my structural engineer gives me a break on pricing if I do the red-line corrections myself, including the details he may add, because he is not a fan of being on computers as much as some of us are.
So, that being said, he prefers to red-line printed sheets.

Also because, he's a practicing General Contractor, who really gets how things are built in the field, I wouldn't even think about using anyone else.
Plus I stopped using autocad myself at v9. (1989).

About the doors vs windows, it does make a difference here in earthquake county.
Many windows ,if not too large,can be made to be "mitigated" openings.

With correct blocking and strapping the sheer value of a windowed wall can be used as continuous, Not so with a door.
Also what type of connection member you use at sheer panel joints or at the end of a sheer panel call out matters. 2x's have to be calculated by the nails that hold them together,
whereas 4x's do not and are much prefered.
Hope that helps explain it.

Bier

[Karl Ottenstein]

Bier wrote:
With correct blocking and strapping the sheer value of a windowed wall can be used as continuous, Not so with a door.

Thanks for the education! 🙂 I assume it is the fixed windows that provide the additional shear value?

Nothing directly in 12 to help identify the window openings. (If there was a model view option that would allow window labels to be visible even when the window was represented only by opening lines, that would be perhaps an OK workaround - but not possible.)

Cheers,
Karl

[Anonymous]

Well. Show Windows with contour and Doors without.

[Anonymous]

Karl
Actually it does not matter what kind of window it is, it is not the window that provides the "continuous" shear calculation. Think of a truss or steel beam with it's "holes/openings".
With the proper connection/continuation of the "member" the unit acts as a whole. Example, even Simpsons "strong walls" can have holes/slots field drilled or cut (within defined spaces), without compromising the structural values beyond design point.

Not exactly the same, but I think that might give you a mental 3d visualization of the "controlled window opening" allowance that a structural engineer (or designer following strict guidelines) might apply to a wall with a window verses a wall with a door.

So sense it is my structural engineer requesting the beam/header lines, at openings (and the "columns" on either side of openings, and beyond) (which I like very much), it just makes sense, without having to actually place a beam at every structural opening, my hope springs eternal for that option(s).

Miki
Thanks for your contour suggestion.
But I will continue to have to draw in lines and "columns" in the non-BIm way of the ancients.
Bier

[cremsberg]

It seems to me that only AC12 window & door library parts are "smart" about Core Only or entire Entire Structure display options. If you want to show casings in AC12 with Core Only display, then use older library parts, but they will still hover away from wall if you have finishes in a composite wall.

See this thread:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=26558&highlight=