Start strong with archicad Collaboration - questions.

[Barry Kelly]

Referring to this post ... https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Start-strong-with-Archicad-Collaborate/ba-p/...

@Emoke Csikos ,

Is this subsrcription to Archicad Collaboration for new customers only?

Can you clarify if this means a new user does not need to purchase Archicad at all?

i.e. they can use Archicad only while they pay for the subscription - basically renting Archicad (& BIMCloud).

This subscription seems confusing for someone like me that has already purchased Archicad and is paying for support/upgrades.

Is BIMCloud SaaS included only for those paying for this suscription?

If that is the case, what is the deal for those (like me) that have purchased Archicad (many licenses) and now pay an annual Select Service Agreement (others have a Forward agreement?), but as far as I know, this does not include BIMCloud Saas.

Do we still need to purchase BIMCloud Saas as an additional cost?

Please don't get mew wrong here, I am not complaining about missing out.

Personally I don't use BIMCloud as I have no need for it, certainly no need if I have to pay extra for it.

And the costs I am paying for my SSA is not as much as the subscription costs mentioned in that post, so I can understand I would need to pay extra for BIMCloud, but I have also already purchased Archicad at a substantial cost - so it all kind of evens out.

There has been some talk recently about moving to a subscription only system and that there will be no more perpetual licenses for Archicad - I have no idea if this is true or not as I am sure most of the posters about this don't know either.

I just thought that we could do with some clarification here about Archicad licensing.

So what is the actual deal here?

Can we still purchase Archicad outright and be assured that we can use this with no problems in the future, with the option for SSA or Froward and BIMCloud subscriptions?

Or is it only a case that all new Archicad licenses are subscription only (now including BIMCloud), and that as soon as you stop paying the subscription, the user is no longer able to use Archicad?

And if it is only a subscription service now, are those of us that have 'perpetual' licenses for Archicad, still going to be able to use Archicad in the future with the option for SSA/Forward agreements for support and upgrades.

If you could give some clarification on licensing/subscription, I am sure that will be appreciated by many here.

There seem to be a lot of rumours about licensing floating around, and post like this about subscriptions don't help to clarify anything - just adds to the confusion I think.

Or should we just deal with our local distributors? (If a user has one or not is another matter judging from some other posts).

Thanks (and sorry),

Barry.

[Djordje]

@Barry Kelly , I do not see why you should apologize for a very relevant and pertinent set of questions.

One of the Archicad advantages since I know about it (1995) was the clear and user supportive licensing - perpetual license, any version to current upgrade, and backwards compatibility. Something that the "industry standard" does not have.

A combination of perpetual license and SSA/Forward works very well for us, and we are looking forward to continuing with it. I would also point out that BricsCAD, for example, does the same, and has very palpable success over the "industry standard" with a level of magnitude cost difference for the users.

Greed is not good. Gordon Gecko is not a model character, but a manual of what NOT to do. For the younger amongst us, I am referring to the 1980s movie "Wall Street" that a lot of people have understood as a manual... while it was, and especially is now, a warning.

So, Graphisoft... clarity, please. If then algorithm. Binary situation, no maybes.

[DGSketcher]

I'm still trying to clarify the difference between SSA and Forward let alone Collaboration? And wrestling with the fact that apart from the version upgrades (which have been short on improvement recently), limited support & the licence insurance there is little to justify the rather large payment I am already making each year, without doubling it to the indicated Subscription rate.

The list of suggested subscription benefits are also rather dubious, particularly when it lists Param-O which has generally received scathing comments, Redshift which requires an advanced graphics card and PERSONAL technical support which officially relies on this self-help forum, particularly if you don't even have local support.

Interesting that the EcoDesigner (now included with AC) doesn't appear in that list, perhaps because it is broken and unsupported?  

You would have though after all the expressions of disappointment posted here recently, Marketing might have done a little research to ascertain what really matters to users rather than hiding in their Golden Palace and trying to sell stuff that users don't want with inflated payments.

[Djordje]

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@DGSketcher wrote:

You would have though after all the expressions of disappointment posted here recently, Marketing might have done a little research to ascertain what really matters to users rather than hiding in their Golden Palace and trying to sell stuff that users don't want with inflated payments.

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Oh, but this is the industry standard... just look at the "industry standard" software packages... now I understand what "industry standard release cycle" at https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/New-Yearly-Release-Cycle/ba-p/373014 means 😄

In all fairness, and joking aside, the offer is for the new buyers, not us dinosaurs... two for one, or buy two get one free (always the cheaper item) or something like that.

[Martin Jules]

These are old marketing strategies that also have their weaknesses in both time and space selected to acquire new clients. Companies that implemented those strategies in Canada, for example, ended up abandoning them due to the frustrations of their existing clients. In other words, Graphisoft prefers repeating others' mistakes instead of building its future on listening to its own clients.

[DGSketcher]

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@Djordje wrote:

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In all fairness, and joking aside, the offer is for the new buyers, not us dinosaurs... two for one, or buy two get one free (always the cheaper item) or something like that.

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For now? 🤔

[mthd]

I spoke with my AC provider and sales representative this Monday and subscriptions only are definitely coming in the future maybe within 7 years as was their opinion at this time. We can still have a perpetual license to continue to that time if that period they indicated is indeed correct ?

It looks like that new users can now start a subscription or choose a perpetual license depending on your country. Please see the link. “Suscriptions” convenient typo lol “Sus”.

https://graphisoft.com/licensing-options

I got over my initial shock with Chief Architect brining in a “subscriptions only” for new users earlier this year. If I didn’t upgrade my version of Chief Architect before a specified cut off time, I am stuck at the old version of the program. I can now only use the latest version with a subscription only. I can still use my old version whenever I choose to do so. That’s their policy.

Nemetschek or by extension Graphisoft will have their own policy. We just have to get used to it if they indeed do change it, no matter how hard it may be to accept.

[DGSketcher]

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@mthd wrote:

Nemetschek or by extension Graphisoft will have their own policy. We just have to get used to it if they indeed do change it, no matter how hard it may be to accept.

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This is how Dictatorships evolve... accept it, however unjust it might be. Fortunately I think for now we are in a free market and there are other solutions out there. Very few companies are too big to fail and Graphisoft isn't one of them. If they get back to serving their users rather than their shareholders there may be a future for them. 

[mthd]

True ! I prefer Archicad and this old dog doesn’t want to learn new tricks except right inside Archicad.

True they need to tweak many existing features rather than add too many new ones.

I don’t want to be sanitised by other cad from Autodesk etc. I like the freedom right inside Archicad.

With some fine tuning it will keep me happy.

[DGSketcher]

If anyone wants a heads up on the faceless financial drivers behind our design struggles...

Nemetschek Annual Report March 2023