1st parametric AEC CAD

[Rob]

I just would like to know (curiosity) why Revit claims to be the 1st parametric AEC CAD on the market since 1997. Is that true? or it's just another misleading marketing slogan? What about GDL then, wasn't it parametric before AC 6 got released?

[Laszlo Nagy]

Scott wrote:
It's all marketing, and it happens on both sides. What does Graphisoft do now with the marketing that claims ArchiCAD was used to design the tallest building in the world? It was the tallest for a short time, but now the Freedom Tower at the WTC site will be taller, and it's being designed and documented in Revit. Not trying to say their marketing is wrong, but when they say it's the only program capable of handling a building of this size, that statement is flawed.

GS said ArchiCAD was used to design the world's tallest RESIDENTIAL building, which I think is a true statement:

http://www.graphisoft.com/company/press_zone/eureka.html

[Scott Davis]

GS said ArchiCAD was used to design the world's tallest RESIDENTIAL building, which I think is a true statement:

Which is exactly my point....marketing is all about the wording. Is it fully parametric, or is it the tallest residential building. One word can change everything whether its Graphisoft or Autodesk marketing.

It's like the saying "New and Improved." Which is it? An old product that's been improved, or a new product?

[Karl Ottenstein]

Ralph wrote:
Otherwise this questioning is tying up a lot of the forum's time and energy replying what appears to be a sales pitch for Revit coupled with deprecatory comments on ArchiCAD. How can you justify spending so much time on this forum without any intention of using ArchiCAD or even trying the demo?

Hold your horses, sheath your swords, and all that. 😉

I've enjoyed all of Scott's various posts and congratulate him on remaining level headed when under attack in various threads. I find his questions and comments very useful for thinking about the future. I've played with a Revit demo, and have been impressed with (and envious of) a number of features there ... but given the learning curve of reaching the depth of understanding that I now have of working with AC, I know that I couldn't possibly reach that depth in Revit without working with it daily for some period of time and with some number of actual projects. As such, any information, anecdotal or otherwise, from an actual Revit user is very interesting to me ... and perhaps others here.

Similarly, I read, appreciate and learn from all of your posts, Ralph, particularly on the developer forum, and look forward to hearing and learning more from you.

Cheers,
Karl

[Aaron Bourgoin]

Scott,

I appreciate your input on this forum. There really should be a place for the sharing of ideas that advance 4D virtual modeling of AEC projects and processes. I refer to the whole project as ICE - the integrated Construction Economy. (my acronym - not Autodesk's, not Graphisoft's).

After tuning in to your two or 3 threads this on this board through the Summer. I don't really know that I have had any epiphanies about Revit by reading what you say. Regrettably I feel that sometimes what you write and how you write it are perceivable as "apologia" for Revit and other things Autodesk.

The choice of wording is deliberate as it reminds me of the stuff I had to read in a History of the Early Christian Church course I once took. Apologists (as distinct from Apostles and Fathers in this very strict topology) were very important to the development and growth of the Early Church. The good ones, Augustine of Hippo for example, actually contributed ideas that form a tangible part of Christian Theology (we take theology for granted - 2000 years ago there wasn't a Christian theology). The lesser ones simply kept Christianity in the public eye.

I am responding to this latest defensive missive of yours because it simply goes nowhere. Having been a player for 10 years now I would give the nod to Autodesk for bigger and better spin. Yes its the tallest residential project in the world. Always was. No last minute adjective insertion there.

Frankly, we all know what Autodesk says about BIM. I direct you to any print ad in any recent Architectural periodical. If you want to read what the Corporate Organ has to say in related media, I direct you to Phil Bernstein's very biased and potentially misleading article for Lachmi Khemlani's AEC Bytes web site.

Bernstein does not have to be an apologist for the Church of Autodesk - he is the Church as far as the AEC community is concerned.

The entire article is at http://www.aecbytes.com/viewpoint/issue_2.htm, but I direct you specifically to the paragraph that says:

At the same time software providers must deliver robust technologies to support process innovation, offering purpose-built solutions that reduce the inefficiencies and errors that are created in large part by the data discontinuities of current practice. In fact, I believe that building information modeling—a concept that Autodesk first introduced in 2002, and the rest of our competitors subsequently embraced—can serve as a significant new catalyst for structural change.

That paragraph is a clear distortion - unqualified with adjectives. Its not apologia, its evangelia. It gives the nod to the ad writers to say,

"... Revit, the only design software purpose-built for building information modeling."

Architectural Record page 42 -July 2004

Say it long enough - true or not - and the faithful will come to accept it as gospel. Call it apology, call it spin, call it SPAM. Let's move this discussion forward please.

[Steve Jepson]

. .

[stefan]

This thread has to many ugly words...

[Vitruvius]

I'd just checked out the following tutorial for parametric Revit objects, and it's worth a look.

http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/revit/tutorials.htm

It's a straighforward tutorial to create a parametric louvre. What I found very interesting is that the parameters are ascribed by dimensioning an object created through drafting and subsequently identifying that dimension value as a parameter.

Very graphical and intuitive for architects. I don't know if it has an underlying language as powerful as GDL, but quite frankly, for a lot of symbols it's a pretty elegant and unintimidating way of creating parametric objects for most users.

It's dead simple and something AC should look at for embellishing objects saved from plan rather than scripted - because I suspect this type of parametric creation will resonate with the wider architectural community far more than the idea of scripted objects.

I suspect I could script the same object using GDL in a similar amount of time but I'd rather use graphics (my native tongue!) than scripting. And keep in mind that acquiring GDL skill is a personal investment which not everyone is prepared to make. I've only done so because I find the logic and rigour of GDL an interesting time out from the creative process (though perhaps a coffee break would be more logical).

Heresy - perhaps. Or viewed objectively, a clever interface Graphisoft could adopt to augment an already powerful tool. Imagine kick-starting the parametric process graphically then delving into scripted GDL to add refinement!

That would kick a$$ (Djorde, am I allowed to say that?).

Cheers, Cameron

PS - Sadly it seems to be a Windows only programme.

[Ralph Wessel]

Scott wrote:
No sales pitch, no deprecatory comments intended.

I've decided to withdraw the lengthy quotation - it's easy enough for everyone to decide for themselves by reviewing your posts: http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/search.php?search_author=Scott+Davis

[Ralph Wessel]

Scott wrote:
I read this forum, most of the ADT/AutoCAD and other Autodesk NG's, and the Revit Forums at AUGI. It's about collecting information and getting educated. I like reading about and discussing this stuff.

Then it isn't working - you already asked the same question about Plotmaker, but the answers seem to have been ignored: http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=1967

[Scott Davis]

Considering I was 'taking up too much of your time' that's quite the collection of quotes.

Thanks for the link to the older post of mine regarding plotmaker. I read through it again, and still don't see where it answered some of my other more recent questions.