2d line drawing and structural drawings in AC

[Anonymous]

In addition to the residential architectural designing that I do, I also exclusively do the drafting for a structural engineer. All architectural is done in AC and structural and grading plans in ACAD. Any architectural project that I get I already know that we will be doing the structural. So here is my question. I just finished reading the topic discussed here:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=9876,

This was regarding 2d line drawing etc. and that most AC users find it faster to draft 2d lines in AC then in ACAD, and I find that encouraging.
I have been thinking about this for about a year now and I would like to start incorporating the structural drawings in Archicad. This to me would require a lot of 2d drafting especially with structural details. I would also have to merge my existing ACAD structural details into AC in addition to occasionally modifying existing details and producing new details. I don't find this to be too much of a problem especially if I can use the line tools effiently. ACAD is fast at 2d and I think AC could be the same once I get a work flow down. Once I start making this transition I don't want to turn back. But there will occasionally be the lone structural job that we will do for another architectural firm etc, and I would assume that I would produce those cd's in ACAD, or would I? I love the idea and the benefits of keeping the architectural and structural within the same AC project file and PM and hopefully will be easier with ACv10.

Any opinions to help reinforce my decision would be great. What are the pros and cons etc? Has anyone had any experience with this?

Thanks for your time.

Jim

[gpowless]

I too have done a fair bit of structural work for engineers, as well as some metal detailing for a fabricator.

Not only do I do all the work in Archicad, I model just about every piece of it. I fiind the modelling and drawing off the models the best way to represent the work and often get thanks for heading off a potential problem that couldn't be identified in 2d work. Yes it takes a bit of time to get into the habit of modelling but it pays for itself many times over when the engineer comes back complaining about a connection and we pull the model up in 3d views to verify that everything is in place.

[Anonymous]

gpowless,

Thanks for the reply. How much would you actually model? I'm anticipating modeling beams, floor joists etc (which would also save me from cleaning up sections) But would you also model rafters and studs? I know that you can a wall fraing with the wall accessories but that does not work too well with rakes.

I too also do structurals steel shop drawings and decided to do a job with AC. It worked out pretty good but it took a little getting used to. The steel library is quite handy. I would make all custom base plates and buckets etc from slabs and save as a lib part. I learned a lot from modeling every little piece. I wanted to see how effecient it was in Ac. I should have bid the job higher. But I feel I could be effecient once I got used to it.

Jim

[Mats_Knutsson]

JMM4JMC wrote:
In addition to the residential architectural designing that I do, I also exclusively do the drafting for a structural engineer. All architectural is done in AC and structural and grading plans in ACAD. Any architectural project that I get I already know that we will be doing the structural. So here is my question. I just finished reading the topic discussed here:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=9876,

This was regarding 2d line drawing etc. and that most AC users find it faster to draft 2d lines in AC then in ACAD, and I find that encouraging.
I have been thinking about this for about a year now and I would like to start incorporating the structural drawings in Archicad. This to me would require a lot of 2d drafting especially with structural details. I would also have to merge my existing ACAD structural details into AC in addition to occasionally modifying existing details and producing new details. I don't find this to be too much of a problem especially if I can use the line tools effiently. ACAD is fast at 2d and I think AC could be the same once I get a work flow down. Once I start making this transition I don't want to turn back. But there will occasionally be the lone structural job that we will do for another architectural firm etc, and I would assume that I would produce those cd's in ACAD, or would I? I love the idea and the benefits of keeping the architectural and structural within the same AC project file and PM and hopefully will be easier with ACv10.

Any opinions to help reinforce my decision would be great. What are the pros and cons etc? Has anyone had any experience with this?

Thanks for your time.

Jim

Hi Jim,
On my former place I together with a colleauge the structural cd's on a pretty big building. In my mind the difference is that you model more stuff in the structural model. The benefits from having the 3D model was the same. We used the same 2,5D technique as I've always bees using for the architechtural modeling but added more details in the model. Depending on your national 2D drawing presentation standards you can go more or less far in the 3D modelling (that is less pure 2D paper-cad work). AC10 will adress most of the issues I had with AC8.1 and AC9 for structural modelling.
Now I sell this wonderful software but if I would do any general building modelling (visual, architectural, structural etc) I would go for AC with no hesitation at all, rather a grat confidence.
Cheers,
Mats

[Anonymous]

I do Architectural & Structural all in AC and very happy with it. Yet when it comes to detailing of Straps, Bolts, Nails, Reinforcing Bars, Top-Bottom Plates.... I still use 2d details. Any one does all in 3d? I yes how and with what add-on?
Thanks,
Joseph

[Anonymous]

Thank you everyone for the replies. Most encouraging. I would still like to here some more opinions on this subject.

Thanks,
Jim

[Rakela Raul]

I do Architectural & Structural all in AC and very happy with it. Yet when it comes to detailing of Straps, Bolts, Nails, Reinforcing Bars, Top-Bottom Plates.... I still use 2d details.

same here !

[Anonymous]

Joseph wrote:
...when it comes to detailing of Straps, Bolts, Nails, Reinforcing Bars, Top-Bottom Plates.... I still use 2d details. Any one does all in 3d? I yes how and with what add-on?

We've done some structural plans for projects ranging from single family additions to multi-family. What we've done depended on the amount of work and coordination needed. For the small jobs we've mostly modeled beams and embelished the results in 2d. For the larger jobs, we ended up modeling more items, and again, embelished them in 2d.

As for what was modeled, we mainly modeled the components that would be important in coordinating the building as a whole. For example, modeling trusses and beams to make sure we have the clearances we need in the shafts, proper bearing, clearances for ceiling and headroom, etc. Modeling steel beams would also be recomended so that you can pull automatic top/bottom of steel heights.

We've not modeled bolts and nails since they essentially dissapear in most applications. Lumber and blocking was usually not modeled either, and neither were the vertical studs since they were not essential in coordinating in 3d (their coordination takes place in plan, not in sections or elevations).

Hope this makes sense, and take everything with a grain of salt. It mainly depends on the level of detail required, shown, etc.