AC15 / Modelling

[Anonymous]

So now we know ArchiCAD 15 and 16 are to do with modelling, similar to the way 13 and 14 were centred around teamwork.

This will be interesting to watch, as the implementation will affect whether solo users see this as “yet another update for the big end of town”, or whether it has a general benefit to the usability of the program, and therefore is beneficial to all users.

I’ve long held the view that the 3D engine in ArchiCAD is archaic and in need of urgent overhaul. Not only is it slow, but the ability to create complex objects is limited to GDL scripting, and then there is the whole disconnect between the 3d model and 2d view. Specific complaints might include:
• Single threaded processing (AC needs to maximise use of mainstream multicore CPUs)
• Main accessibility via GDL scripting irrelevant to majority of users (AC needs a good GUI for modelling - urgently).
• Buggy SEOs that magically affect a 3D view without modifying the 2D view. (AC needs a robust modelling toolbox including nurb type shapes, with reliable transformations, that are graphically apparent in the final object).
• Complex model elements do not relate to the ArchiCAD toolset. (Creating complex walls etc still need to behave as walls and be able to receive doors and windows etc - think complex profiles on steroids. One of significant flaws in GS last attempt, the Maxonform add-on, was the way “intelligent’ objects lost their properties and became part of a dumb amorphous mass – and so could not be scheduled, dimensioned etc.).
• Inability to set up relationships between objects

Observations of the pace of development and resources available at GS suggest that they are struggling to keep up with the competition. Two years of AC updates were consumed implementing and fixing Teamwork, and we understand at least 3-4 years development preceded that. Other parts of the program have slipped into irrelevancy (e.g. Lightworks– though fortunately one can get around that with a plethora of capable renderers).

Nemescheck as a group has committed to IFCs for interoperability and so we see both GS and Vectorworks (VW) committing to that standard. Returning to the topic of modelling, VW have embraced Siemens Parametric technology going forward. In an ideal world I would hope GS could also embrace such – not only offering a terrific boost to AC, but also strengthening the Nemescheck group through a far more powerful interoperability than IFCs offer. We shall wait and see what unfolds next year….
Interested to hear what other users have to say on the topic....

[Anonymous]

Since CI got mentioned....
Well some good news is Cadimage has a 2-4-1 sale going on til Dec 15th, but they're a day ahead, so don't procrastinate to the last minute if interested.

So... I'm thinking of adding their framing add-on but could someone in the U.S. (especially West coast) comment if it works well for you, and show an example maybe? I'm not convinced by the CI web site display and sure would be nice to have actual user feed back.
Sorry about diversion...
Now...back to the intended thread.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

rwallis wrote:
........

IMHO we have to have something better than modelling tools for massing - they have to be able to be accessible in all the tools.

If we end up with a maxonform add-on type situation it will reflect on how far behind AC has slipped....
there is actually a lot riding on this particular 'update'....

Especially when you consider the fact that the reason they abandoned Maxonform in the first place was to ostensibly focus all their efforts on improving AC's modeling tools.......


........4 versions ago.

I agree about the too little, too late part , and I am indeed somewhat skeptical about this "all-eggs-in-one-basket(version)" approach of proclaiming that the next version will be all about improving the modeling tools which they know they have ignored for far too long. There's only so much improvement you can squeeze into one (or even 2) versions - as we all so painfully learned from the Version 8.0/8.1 debacle.

My suspicion - based on everything we've observed from the past few versions (vis-a-vis MEP modeler, VBE, EcoDesigner), is that they'll go the same route that Autodesk are going with their "project Vasari" and develop the tools as an entirely separate module or program altogether (allowing them to charge extra $$$, of course) which ties into AC by allowing bi-directional exchange of objects.
So basically MaxonForm all over again - except developed and maintained by them instead of by Maxon or some other third-party.

Except that the difference with the Autodesk approach with project Vasari, is that Revit already has most of those modeling tools internally and in it's own right and that Vasari is not so much a supplement to Revit's deficiencies but rather just a different approach. (Vasari is essentially just a stripped down version of Revit).

[Bricklyne Clarence]

TMA_80 wrote:
And in the meantime, Autodesk has released an independant"freeform" parametric modeling application called Vasari (in project phase ), actually it is the massing part of Revit.

the link :
http://labs.blogs.com/its_alive_in_the_lab/2010/11/project-vasari-technology-preview-now-available.h...

I did download it and take it for a test ride, and all I can say is that it was a truly crappy and atrocious modeling experience - for the little time that I used it before deleting it.
There was nothing remotely intuitive or enjoyable about it or about trying to "freeform" model or conceptual model in it. (it is based off of Revit after all)

It this is their attempt at challenging Sketchup and Rhino as conceptual/free-form modeling tools then they have completely missed the whole point as to why those 2 programs are so popular with a lot of firms and architectural schools for those purposes.

Like I said, it's a stripped down version of Revit. So if you love Revit, you will love using this program ( although I can't imagine anyone who loves modeling free-form or conceptual masses in Revit - most people just typically import their masses and forms)
If, on the other hand, you've used and hate Revit, well....

[Anonymous]

The next step for Archicad is something that should have been implemented a long time ago.

Multiple live viewpoints. I want to be able to see and work on multiple views on the workspace. drag and drop items, objects, text from one view across to another, live updates etc etc.

The fact that Archicad doesnt do this already is unbelivable. My work productivity would increase hugely if this was implemented.

[Anonymous]

jazzysarah wrote:
The next step for Archicad is something that should have been implemented a long time ago.

Multiple live viewpoints. I want to be able to see and work on multiple views on the workspace. drag and drop items, objects, text from one view across to another, live updates etc etc.

The fact that Archicad doesnt do this already is unbelivable. My work productivity would increase hugely if this was implemented.

I have to second that
Doesn't every '3D' package work that way?

... though is it true that AC's 're-draw' paradigm keeps the file more responsive - especially for v large models?

[Steve Jepson]

My hope for AC 15 is that it will concentrate on extracting the BI from the M into useable schedules.

BIM "Authoring" software ? Please! Who invented that excuse?
The first time I read that I thought to myself, damn, they are giving up on it. Now they will never make it work right.

The value of any BIM software is proven by it's ability to extract the BI into useful schedules.

Free form modeling tools ? What for? ArchiCAD is for turning those free-form drawings into constructible, documentable, components. If it's supposed to be built free form, then you don't need working drawings for it do you. That's what pencils are for.

[Anonymous]

Steve wrote:
Free form modeling tools ? What for?

I won't be doing any free form buildings anytime soon, but I would like to have the ability to easily model complex components in my designs. (Light fixtures, entry desks, furniture, etc.)

I do agree that 3d modeling alone without more information doesn't get us far enough. We need to be able to more easily mine that information.

[Steve Jepson]

"outpostarc"... but I would like to have the ability to easily model complex components in my designs. (Light fixtures, entry desks, furniture, etc.) quote wrote:


That's true. I guess I would like to have better modeling tools.
I do try to model everything that needs modeling as close to the real thing as possible.

[Anonymous]

The sad story is that there are already instruments to help us model in an easier way.(objective and archiforma) Graphisoft please integrate these add-ons (or something similar)on next release.

[Steve Jepson]

Do you think some of these add-on companies have made deals with Graphisoft not to put them out of business ?