ArchiCAD 11

[Anonymous]

ArchiCAD 11 will come soon (as much as I suspect..)
What can AC 11 do better than AC10?

[Anonymous]

Djordje wrote:

Laura wrote:

Djordje wrote:
And is it free for US or free for all?

Good question. They were speaking to a US audience. Hopefully, it will be free for all.

Won't hold my breath ...

Hard to imagine how (or why) they would want to confine it to the US. What can they do? Put it on the "No fly list"?

[Stress Co_]

Laura wrote:
Good question. They were speaking to a US audience. Hopefully, it will be free for all.

Careful what you wish for

[Steve Jepson]

Laura wrote:

TomWaltz wrote:
on another note... was there ever any confirmation that AC11 is actually coming with the HVAC add-on? I know there were some rumors to that effect.

...only that I heard it straight from the horses' mouths (PM and DG) in San Antonio that it would be available free for AC11 users mid-summer.

Having a MEP modeler in ArchiCAD would undermine Constructor big time. My bet is that this will not happen until anytime soon.

Graphisoft does have the features we all want to see developed more in ArchiCAD. The problem is they are taking them away from us and giving them to Constructor.

[TomWaltz]

Steve wrote:
Having a MEP modeler in ArchiCAD would undermine Constructor big time. My bet is that this will not happen until anytime soon.

Graphisoft does have the features we all want to see developed more in ArchiCAD. The problem is they are taking them away from us and giving them to Constructor.

How would an MEP modeler undermine Constructor? And what have we ever had taken away from Archicad and put into Constructor?

[Aaron Bourgoin]

I don't see the logic of Steve's argument either.

[__archiben]

Aaron wrote:
I don't see the logic of Steve's argument either.

steve's failed to understand most of what he's been wittering on about for the past year or so.

GS's 'ductwork for archicad' add-on has been available at cost in the UK for since forever (it used to be called 'HVAC for archicad' which - i think - used to be called 'Cymap'). what they have in the constructor looks to be a more advanced version of that.

regarding which one, whether or not they give it away free, and whether it's just confined to north america . . . well, i'll be with djordje watching you lot asphyxiate

~/archiben

[Steve Jepson]

TomWaltz wrote:

Steve wrote:
Having a MEP modeler in ArchiCAD would undermine Constructor big time. My bet is that this will not happen until anytime soon.

Graphisoft does have the features we all want to see developed more in ArchiCAD. The problem is they are taking them away from us and giving them to Constructor.

How would an MEP modeler undermine Constructor? And what have we ever had taken away from Archicad and put into Constructor?

I have never used Constructor but I do not believe that it is anywhere near as much of an independent program as their brochures would lead you to believe.

I think it does have some unique programing, but they are careful not to tell you in the promos exactly what that is.

I think it is essentially some add-ons for ArchiCAD(MEP) + some pre-configured schedules, special library, etc...and is able to export the BIM data to other programs like Primavera that come with it. These other programs are actually generating many aspects of the 4d and 5d features.

Essentially, Constructor is an bundled group of plug-ins and other programs that are used to extract data from an ArchiCAD BIM.
Yes, I know, it also has some unique features as well.

If ArchiCAD had the MEP modeler, and I can buy the other programs separately ( Primavera ect...) why would I still need to buy Constructor? For it's ability to extract useful data from the ArchiCAD BIM of course. It is this ability that should also be included with ArchiCAD, or at least let us buy it, and use it with ArchiCAD.

I think this is stealing from ArchiCAD because ArchiCAD is trying to be a BIM progarm. But is missing a very important part of this.

What good is a BIM if you can not extract the data into useful schedules, reports, and other programs?

ArchiCAD's lack of this ability makes it only 1/2 of a BIM program!

The other 1/2, has been put into Constructor. They could just as easily have made it available in ArchiCAD, but have chosen not to do that,
leaving ArchiCAD a lame BIM program.

The choice we have is perfectly clear.

If you need to create a truly useful "ArchiCAD" Building Information Model, you need to quit using ArchiCAD and buy Constructor.

I would love to do that, but I can not afford it.

Now you see why ArchiCAD 11 has done a little more to be 2d user friendly? Is it because if you are not modeling for the sake of generating a BIM, you may be much happier with some extra 2d features.

I think it is safe to say the the majority of ArchiCAD users are not modeling for the sake of the BIM or generating materials lists, ect...

They only use modeling as a means of faster 2d output. For 3d models, renderings, ect...

As long as there are two programs, there is not much point in making both of them do the same thing. It becomes redundant to even try to develope the same kinds of features for two different programs.

Which program do you think is going to get all of the BIM improvements? ArchiCAD or Constructor? Both?

I use ArchiCAD to create my materials lists. I know what a headache it is.

I may be uninformed about some of these things, and just plain wrong about others, however, I think everyone will agree that ArchiCAD is not going to be a complete BIM program until it has the ability to extract and process BIM data as well as Constructor can.

If ArchiCAD is never going to have better Calculations, it might just as well quit trying to evolve into what Constructor already is.

[Anonymous]

Steve wrote:
......They only use modeling as a means of faster 2d output. For 3d models, renderings, ect...

Sorry to admit I am guilty of using AC in this way
joseph

[Steve Jepson]

Almost everyone does this because it is just to hard to make any other use of the information that is available in the models we are making.

The reason I have kept using ArchiCAD is partly because of the potential I believed it had.

Some are able to invest in the company buying stock, everyone (long time users especially) has invested in ArchiCAD by using it in good faith that someday it will have been worth it to switch to ArchiCAD.

Some have paid a heavy price in terms of employability and marketability by choosing to swim up stream with ArchiCAD.

The day was almost here when the return on this kind of investment was about to pay off.

I feel like we have been betrayed when what I think should be in ArchiCAD is put into another program that I can not afford to use.

Am I the only one thinks Constructor will be a bad thing for the future of ArchiCAD?


Constructor is ArchiCAD on steroids.

Is this similar to how ADT is similar to Revit?

That plan didn't work out to well, now they are ramping up ADT again to be more like Revit.

And all of the progams are getting more and more alike.

This makes me worry about my investment in ArchiCAD.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

~/archiben wrote:

Aaron wrote:
I don't see the logic of Steve's argument either.

steve's failed to understand most of what he's been wittering on about for the past year or so.

GS's 'ductwork for archicad' add-on has been available at cost in the UK for since forever (it used to be called 'HVAC for archicad' which - i think - used to be called 'Cymap'). what they have in the constructor looks to be a more advanced version of that.

regarding which one, whether or not they give it away free, and whether it's just confined to north america . . . well, i'll be with djordje watching you lot asphyxiate

~/archiben

To understand the 'logic' (or lack thereof) as well as all the wittering, you have to realize that he's under the woefully misguided and misconceived impression that Constructor and ArchiCAD are both geared towards, and being marketed to, the same marketbase (i.e architects). In essence, that they are competing against each other - that's where he's coming from. Which, if the creation of Vico Software for purposes of the separation of the development and marketing of both programs is anything to go by, is clearly not the case. ArchiCAD is, has always been and will for the foreseeable future remain primarily an architect's tool. Constructor, on the other hand, as an offshoot of ArchiCAD's BIM engine is a prototypical tool created by Graphisoft to venture into a largely incipient and, at the moment, considerably raw, clientbase and clientele; i.e. the BIM-conscious Contractor and Construction engineer. I say largely incipient, because the concept of BIM or virtual building (and/or construction) is mostly unknown to most contractors and engineers who still operate and communicate in Flatland 2D CAD. Think of it as a pioneering venture by the same company that first waded into Virtual Building and BIM over 20 years ago, to a field that `s worth hundreds of billions of dollars in charged fees every year. In this sense, Graphisoft, (and now Vico softawre), never ever intended for Constructor to be used nor marketed as an architect's design tool or to be marketed to architects. Despite the fact that it looks and feels ( for the most, anyway) part like ArchiCAD - or rather a seriously souped up version of ArchiCAD.

Unfortunately this simple fact seems to perpetually elude some who are constantly under to impression that ArchiCAD's development continues to be hampered by the presence of Constructor - despite the formation of a seperate company to take over it's development and despite the fact that we've never really seen Constructor being heavily marketed to Architects as one would assume would be the case for someone anxious to try to get you to switch. Don't bother trying to explain any of this to him nor conversely gleaning any "logic" from him - 'twould indeed be a complete waste of your otherwise precious time.


The fact of the matter is that despite the presence of third-party MEP ( including HVAC and some Structural) plugins for ArchiCAD since as far back as versions 6.5 and 7.0, Graphisoft have tended to make the deliberate decision not to develop nor intergrate these functions into ArchiCAD ( the way they are integrated completely into Constructor) for the simple reason that, the larger portion of their clientbase ( as in the European and Asian markets) see a stark separation of these functions, (in their design and profesional culture), from normal architectural functions and don`t consider it part of their mandate in design, as might be the case or the culture in the North American market, for example, where it's not unusual to find large firms that handle everything from conceptual design to documentation to structural and mechanical functions and even construction. So they ( Graphisoft) wisely elected not to clunk down their engine in previous versions, and instead give the user the option of obtaining the modules themselve if they did indeed need them.

But since more and more architects today are getting more tech-savvy and well-versed in BIM and Virtual Building as well as project management and construction site management, thanks to better tools like ArchiCAD - and thus even asking for these tools - it shouldn't surprise anyone if GS decide to include these MEP and structural-type functions into the core program, or at least the option to have them there, within the next couple of versions. Especially with a more improved, faster and stable BIM parametric engine.

The discussion regarding the influence of Constructor on this likelyhood is neither here nor there and should be just as promptly disregarded as such.