cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Starting August 6, 2024, TLS 1.2 will be the minimum required protocol version for Graphisoft products and services that require an online connection. Learn more…
Modeling
About Archicad's design tools, element connections, modeling concepts, etc.

Archicad 14 New Features

Dennis Lee
Booster
See what's on youtube!

http://www.youtube.com/user/Archicad#g/c/5C1926DD91A70C7B

Personally, not much in it for me at all!
ArchiCAD 25 & 24 USA
Windows 10 x64
Since ArchiCAD 9
310 REPLIES 310
Don wrote:
I believe that anyone graduating from Architecture school today, certainly in North America, has to consider Revit proficiency a must, if they hope to get anything of a foothold int he job market with the economy in dire straits as it is right now. Just as AutoCAD proficiency was almost a pre-requisite for getting into this profession 10-20 years ago.
My son is in architecture school right now and while Revit is very popular I don't see it as a must.

That's because you're not currently trying to find a job or get into the profession at the bottom level. The reality of the job market (compounded by this recession) in this economy is quite different to not only what they are teaching in Architecture Schools, which are far removed from the profession as it is already, but also what the students are aware of what they will require to be ready and competitive for the job market.
I hate to say it, but this is a reality that your son will discover for himself when he does graduate (unless he comes to work for you and doesn't have to go through the grueling job hunt like his peers) and has to try to find job in an already distressed profession With any bit of luck he will graduate when this recession has passed and when a good enough portion of the profession has recovered.

But at the present, talk to anyone who graduated in the past 2-3 years and is now looking for a job, about what their biggest concerns in their qualifications is, and what they hope to do about it, and you are likely to run into that Revit question over and over again. In fact talk to anyone in the profession who was laid off over the last 5 years even and who has been looking to get back into the profession and get employment again, regarding what they've been doing in their off-time or while on unemployment, and I guarantee you that you'll hear talk of people taking Revit classes, or brushing up on their REvit proficiency. And obviously the reason for all this is simple - do a quick scan of any job board on AIA, Archinect or even Craigslist and see the percentage between jobs calling for Revit proficiency versus other jobs, and you'll understand why.

Obviously the situation is a bit different if you have more qualifications (read: flexibility) and are licensed or experienced enough to be able to have a say in determining your fate, but this is not the reality that people of your son's generation are facing or will be facing once they graduate and try to get into a profession that has virtually lost an entire generation thanks to this recession.
Don wrote:
Not to mention the apparent if not complete apathy and disinterest that they seem to have towards the users.
I really don't disagree since you qualify a bit what you say, but I maybe don't infer from GS's actions that they don't care about the users or that they have some malevolent intent. My take on the article is that GS is looking to the long term and trying to be relevant in a Revit world.
Look, I'm not saying that GS shouldn't be looking to the future or to their own future and place in the market. My problem with that article and with articles like that as well as with what seems to now be the accepted GS philosophy and vision, is, how can all or most of your focus and efforts be directed to the future, when your present is littered with such problems and deficiencies that you either will not address or choose not to address. It's great to have ArchiCAD capable of collaborating and communicating with other software, but what's the point of that when I have nothing worthwhile, to communicate because I'm so limited by the current set of tools?
It's great to have ArchiCAD positioned to have a presence in the Corporate (big customers) market, but what's the point, when those Corporate players, are still going to be forced to revert to other solutions and software to address things that you can't address at the most basic level? It's great to have ArchiCAD capable of taking full advantage of today's super-fast computer hardware technology, but what's the point when the software's algorithms aren't fully optimized to take advantage of those technological advances, or if they are not accessible to users in a way that makes sense for the users (read: Visual manipulation and modeling, and not line Coding from the 80's)?

Brings to mind the old saying missing the forest for the trees, except in GS's case, its completely in reverse. They are so focused on the future, that they are virtually almost prepared to cut their legs, as they completely neglect the present. Actually, putting the cart before the horse is a more apt idiomatic analogy.

I actually also happen to believe that they can be more forthcoming with their customers, because they have been more forthcoming with their customers before and in the recent past.

When the previous president of GS took over (Gallardo I believe), right before the release AC9 and after the debacle that was AC8.0, he actually used to personally post on and participate in these forums and was quite open about the direction he hoped to take to firm in the future. And there were quite a few developers following suit then as well. This was not that long ago, and it was a great time to be an ArchiCAD customer/user, because you felt a certain confidence in the product, just as there was a certain level of accountability from those making the product.

Unfortunately Gallardo is no longer with GS, and it seems neither is that culture that he seemed to be trying to foster (nor, from the looks of it, are a whole bunch of the developers who actually used to participate in these forums). And maybe that's why. But then again, Gallardo was a former Autodesk man, and is it any surprise that Autodesk are so adept at marketing their products?

Sorry for going on so long about this, but watching what's happening to ArchiCAD, and GS by extension, is akin to the old saying of watching a frog just sit in a saucepan of boiling water slowly boil to death and die a slow death, when it's completely within their means to stop it.
Anonymous
Not applicable
I don’t take GS side but the future is in Nemetschek’s hands. I believed that it will try entering the US market in a big was same as SAP did against Oracle. A recession is the best time maybe the only time to do this.


http://techrx.blogspot.com/2009/01/cad-watch-allplan-by-nemetschek-europes.html

CAD Watch - Allplan by Nemetschek - Europe's Popular BIM Solution
We were recently contacted by an architectural designer, looking for work who had just moved to the US, from Spain. He told us that the demand for Revit skills here was a surpise. According to him, Allplan is widely used for 3D architectural design in Europe and Revit is virtually unknown.
Anonymous
Not applicable
That's because you're not currently trying to find a job or get into the profession at the bottom level. .................

do a quick scan of any job board on AIA, Archinect or even Craigslist and see the percentage between jobs calling for Revit proficiency versus other jobs, and you'll understand why.

If I recall correctly what I read somewhere, 1 in 10 architects in the U.S.A. is a graduate of Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Of the students that I and my son know there only a small percentage knows Revit very well. Most of the students use Rhino, Sketchup and many other programs (a few even use ArchiCad!) but they seem to pick up all the programs very quickly. None of the cad programs are taught in a formal class.

When my son was recently on a tour of the San Francisco office of SOM the question was asked of one of the partners, what cadd program should they learn?. He answered, "We hire you for how you think, not what cad program you know".

I went to the AIA Online Job Boards-e-Architect and checked the first 60 job ads. Very few said Revit was a must. In fact most did not mention cad at all.
Of the 60 I read the job requirements for, 9 mentioned Revit, 23 mentioned AutoCad and 3 mentioned ArchiCad. That means 58% did not mention cad at all. Now I didn't sort them out for entry level positions only-I'll leave that to someone else.

So, by my limited sample, Autocad is still the program to know. I stand by what I said, IMHO, Revit is not a must.
Don wrote:
That's because you're not currently trying to find a job or get into the profession at the bottom level. .................

do a quick scan of any job board on AIA, Archinect or even Craigslist and see the percentage between jobs calling for Revit proficiency versus other jobs, and you'll understand why.

If I recall correctly what I read somewhere, 1 in 10 architects in the U.S.A. is a graduate of Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Of the students that I and my son know there only a small percentage knows Revit very well. Most of the students use Rhino, Sketchup and many other programs (a few even use ArchiCad!) but they seem to pick up all the programs very quickly. None of the cad programs are taught in a formal class.

When my son was recently on a tour of the San Francisco office of SOM the question was asked of one of the partners, what cadd program should they learn?. He answered, "We hire you for how you think, not what cad program you know".

I went to the AIA Online Job Boards-e-Architect and checked the first 60 job ads. Very few said Revit was a must. In fact most did not mention cad at all.
Of the 60 I read the job requirements for, 9 mentioned Revit, 23 mentioned AutoCad and 3 mentioned ArchiCad. That means 58% did not mention cad at all. Now I didn't sort them out for entry level positions only-I'll leave that to someone else.

So, by my limited sample, Autocad is still the program to know. I stand by what I said, IMHO, Revit is not a must.

Yes but Don, that's not just a limited sample, it's a selected sample as well.
And obviously it goes without saying that AutoCAD is pretty much a must, not just for Architecture, but for the entire Construction Industry more or less.

And I already pointed out (as have others in these boards) the massive disconnect that exists between what they teach in Architecture schools and what the expectations are for a graduate entering the job market. Most Architecture schools teach Rhino, Maya, 3DS Max and Sketchup as design tools - and of those examples, only Sketchup and maybe Rhino to a lesser degree are really the only tools you'll find being used in most Architecture firms aside from AutoCAD. Some schools don't even teach AutoCAD at all, and expects students to somehow learn it on their own.
So to expect them to be teaching Revit is kind of a stretch.

My point about it being something of a must to learn has to do with the ultra-competitive nature of the job market right now - especially in California where you are, and where you KNOW that for every job opening there posted on Archinect, AIA, Craigslist or anywhere else, the firm posting the opening typically gets anywhere between 200-500 responses. This is not a joke. This is an actual figure I was told by a HR person with a firm there who typically deals with job postings and hirings.
So in such an environment, why would you put yourself at a disadvantage by not being proficient or knowledgeable of a certain almost Industry-standard program?

Nobody says that you absolutely have to learn Revit, any more than any firm posting an opening is going to say that applicants MUST be Revit proficient (as opposed to what they actual say which would be something along the lines of "Revit proficiency is desirable but not a must" - before they then proceed to use that proficiency or lack thereof as a criterion to weed out the 500 or so applications that they receive).
But to think or believe that in this buyer's market of a recession job market
you're going to dictate or be choosy regarding what jobs you get based on your preferred software, as opposed to what most firms (misguidedly) believe to be the way of the future or BIM, is rather deluded IMO.

Add to that the fact that gone are the days when most firms could afford to and would willingly train their new hires in the software they use, and therefore it didn't matter to them whether or not the candidate was proficient in their preferred software or not (perhaps SOM still does and can afford to, but they are, after all, SOM, recession or not). Most firms can't even afford to hang onto their IT departments much less spend resources training new hires when you can easily get already trained and skilled people from your pick of 300 or so applicants of freshly laid-off experienced job-hunters.


You don't have to look for a job in this economy; you've paid your dues, so you get to choose what you want to do and how.
That's just not the same case for anyone getting out of Architecture school today, and anyone recently graduated or anyone graduating in a few years (which is where I guess your son would fall). Especially at a time when so many talented and skilled people are just struggling by the skin of the teeth to hold on to their dream of still staying in this profession and maybe one day still becoming an architect, or a designer. And especially there in California which was worse hit than anywhere else, save for Florida in this recession, and with more laid off designers, and architects. I can only hope that your son, for his sake doesn't have the same sense of complacency that you seem to. Or at least that the economy will have recovered enough by the time he gets out so that we all have the luxury of being able to learn whatever software we wish, and accordingly pick and choose and join a firm that fits our respective skills. We're just not at that point yet, and won't be for years.

It's rough out there. But if you believe otherwise, then more power to you and your son.
Anonymous
Not applicable
I can only hope that your son, for his sake doesn't have the same sense of complacency that you seem to..............

It's rough out there. But if you believe otherwise, then more power to you and your son.
Bricklyne:

This is were I disagree with many of our postings here in this forum. You draw your own conclusions about a situation (which is of course fine), but then you somehow in your infinite wisdom assign motives and intentions to people who you really don't know.

Bricklyne, you don't know me or my son, so please keep your personal comments to yourself. I won't be posting any further on this thread.

respectfully,

Don Lee
Dennis Lee
Booster
Don wrote:
Visual GDL!

Anyone?

Yes! I think there was another one called Zoom GDL by Abvent. I haven't used either product, but I would think that with a little bit of development resources put into them, at least one of them can become very useful.

My son is only 3, and sometime I'd like him to grow up to be a programmer so I can ask him to make a killer graphical GDL Add-on for me.
ArchiCAD 25 & 24 USA
Windows 10 x64
Since ArchiCAD 9
Anonymous
Not applicable
I find this.... a little bit long but funny !
Don wrote:
I can only hope that your son, for his sake doesn't have the same sense of complacency that you seem to..............

It's rough out there. But if you believe otherwise, then more power to you and your son.
Bricklyne:

This is were I disagree with many of our postings here in this forum. You draw your own conclusions about a situation (which is of course fine), but then you somehow in your infinite wisdom assign motives and intentions to people who you really don't know.

Bricklyne, you don't know me or my son, so please keep your personal comments to yourself. I won't be posting any further on this thread.

respectfully,

Don Lee
So out of all I typed in that response, all you got out of it, was what you perceived to be personal attack against you and your son?
Seriously?

All I did was express concern regarding the current state of the economy, and the difficulty in getting into the job market for people coming out of Architecture school today, a group which your son presumably falls into or hopefully will shortly. Something which I doubt most people will disagree with in this recession. But perhaps I was wrong.

As much as I don't like being accused of personally attacking someone when I did no such thing, or when I don't even know the persons in questions, you are right about one thing. I don't know you nor your son, and frankly speaking I wouldn't have commented on him either, nor even known he existed if YOU hadn't introduced him into this discussion. And likewise I wish I hadn't, particularly if I had known it would be used as a basis to a accuse me of personally attacking someone else.
C'est la vie.
Anonymous
Not applicable
Bricklyne wrote:
So out of all I typed in that response, all you got out of it, was what you perceived to be personal attack against you and your son?
Seriously?
Ok its official... Bricklyne you are a troll. A well versed one... but still a troll.
There is no shame on this... I myself am a troll in redemption.
So... Lets start with the first step. Repeat: "My name is Bricklyne and I'm a troll".
Now seriously: I guess we all got your message. There is no need to massacre our minds with your destructive point of view.

Take care,

Paulo

p.s.: No offence to the A.A., which courage and strongness of mind I really admire.
Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
whatever wrote:
I Don't really agree here Laszlo .. yes it is a minor portion of buildings, but actually that is where people are expecting the real huge benefits of BIM and BIM collaboration . the other thing is ... ok lets say we only need it 10% ( or even 2%) of the time ... so I agree it is not the most focused part of the development .. but dropping tools that we already had ? dropping Maxon form and the link with Sketchup ?
I pesonally think the big benefits of BIM do not come from modeling special shapes. I always saw most of the benefit in the construction documentation and collaboration with engineers phases, with benefit in the areas you mention too, of course.

By the way, the Google Earth connection does import SketchUp models. So there continues to be a link to SketchUp.
Loving Archicad since 1995 - Find Archicad Tips at x.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen9 5900X CPU, 64 GB RAM 3600 MHz, Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), Windows 10 PRO ENG, Ac20-Ac27