Archicad pricing policy

[Anonymous]

Can please someone from GS explain the big difference in prices bettween US and Europe?

The price in Europe is almost double.

This also holds for upgrades.

Can please someone give a responsible answer?

[Vitruvius]

I concur.

This is a real problem. Prices through the local Hong Kong distributor are 40 - 50% higher than prices in the US. And all the local guys are doing is handing me a box which costs US $25. to FedEx out here. Their knowledge of the programme is superficial and quite useless for anyone above the beginner level so there's no "value add".

I now buy my upgrades and programmes when travelling to the US on business.

Graphisoft, this is a VERY BIG PROBLEM for your users. You can't build loyalty and expand your user base whilst your distributors are price gouging your customers.

And they are ripping us off - I can buy every other software package under the sun in HK for virtually what it costs in the US, but for some reason GS and the local distributor spout some skewed logic about "special packages for the international market" driving up the price. By 40 - 50%!!!! What rubbish.

Tell you what, give me a US package at a US price and I'll be a happy camper. Or better yet, let us order direct from GS so everyone pays the same price.

[stefan]

For a moment, I had been trying to sell my ArchiCAD license (a few years ago). A reasonal price-reduction had to be bigger then the difference to upgrade to the newest versions. But that was still more expensive then a new US-license !

We pay about $6500 in Belgium (+ add another 21% taxes!). And the HOL (dutch) version isn't being made anymore, so there is no reason to have a different price from the International version.

But the explanation my distributor made, was that the price was determined by the market.

I would suggest a price around $4000 worldwide and an upgrade price each two years of about $400 per version. Double that to $800 when you're two versions behind. Simple. Clear.

Or be very competitive and sell it for about $2500 and increase market share. But better ask firms like Alias or Avid if it helped selling Maya and XSI 😉 Discreet 3ds max never lowered it's price, yet people still keep buying & upgrading it. (I'm not into marketing so I probably don't understand the way it works at all)

Oh and beware, even if Maya is $2000, maintenance is still about $1000 each year! That's something users won't like 😉

[Jefferson]

I think you gents are being VERY well behaved here given the paces you're being put through. Software companies make an aggressive attempts to stop pirate products from making it to "market" so why not look out for the loyal and legal customers with price protection???

I think if you can get Graphisoft's attention, and I bet you have, everyone on this talk board would stand behind you to see standardized pricing. I do.

[Vitruvius]

Dear Jeff,

I think yours is the sensible and diplomatic reply we'd expect from GS. Many thanks for the solidarity!!!

Cheers, Cameron

[Vitruvius]

Dear Stefan,

You've made some very pertinant arguments. GS should now, more than ever, concentrate on increasing market share rather than pricing on "what the market will accept".

With Revit being purchased by AutoDesk, there's a very real global competitor who probably won't put their customers through the same nonsense. And the bulk of prospects for GS are probably AutoCAD users who will gravitate to Revit because of inertia and incentive pricing.

Referring to some earlier discussions of the same ilk, I would heartily recommend that GS do the following:

1. Standardize prices worldwide immediately.

2. Make ArchiCAD more accessible to new users by selling the last version at a discount (i.e. when V9 issues, sell copies of V8 at a heavy discount with the proviso that the upgrade to current version costs the difference). Get the students, small practices and sole practicioners on board and on the upgrade route. The near-useless time-key concept is a joke.

3. Focus on building market share through the above financial incentives - because the big AutoDesk machine has now entered your market with a very credible and very real alternative. And they have a much larger installed user base.

I recently bought Piranesi through a local distibutor who charged a mere $25. more than their US counterparts. That's the cost of shipping and a fair premium. I expect the same consideration from a company (GS) to whom I've paid thousands of dollars over the past ten years.

Apple lost their market in spite of having a superior product because they thought they had a lock on pricing. They didn't, and GS doesn't either.

Wake up guys! When my personal investment in a particular software package is balanced against the "non-ArchiCAD literate" bulk of employees entering the practice, the cost of switching becomes negligible. And I expect a year or two down the road there will be a lot of Revit users on the market.

All of whom will walk through the front door and start earning fee by lunch on their first day at work!

My first loyalty is to my practice and profession - as much as I love using ArchiCAD, I'll switch in a New York minute if the business case suggests that's the wisest course and there is a more widely used competitor of the same capability.

I want employees versed in virtual building, and if the market readily produces Revit employees I'll switch regardless of the minor merits (or demerits) of the software.

My business engine is my employees, not my software package.

How about a response from the Graphisoft folks?

Cheers, Cameron

PS - This is not to be construed as misgivings with ArchiCAD as a product and certainly not to be used as fodder for the opposing team. ArchiCAD is a great product which I fear is going to be relegated to a niche player for reasons of commerce rather than quality.

[Aaron Bourgoin]

With Revit being purchased by AutoDesk, there's a very real global competitor who probably won't put their customers through the same nonsense.

[upgrade pricing? other nonsense?].

Please forgive me if I am taking your comment out of what is a narrow context and hauling it out into in the greater debate that has raged on this forum since the announcement of ArchiCAD 9.

I believe that Autodesk products fetch a similarly exorbitant premium off American shores as do Microsoft Office Products.

I don't disagree with the suggestion that the price points in different countries should be so disparate, but simply that Autodesk is no angel in the upgrade market either.

I personally believe that Autodesk are the Big Brother of the Industry and I say this as an architect first, a ten year ArchiCAD user second and an ArchiCAD solutions provider third.

Investment in Autodesk product represents a buy-in to a company that purchases technology and reaps the rewards from on the backs of others. My last examination of an Autodesk Annual Report was two years ago, but in that document I discerned that AEC accounted for a surprisingly small share of their revenue. They were making their money that year from another company they acquired - one that made software for film production or something. They are fiercely proud of their ability to maximize shareholder value.

As for their customers, I think that they persist in "putting their customers through something.

My partial dirty laundry list includes:

1. AutoCAD 13
2. AutoCAD 14 (the biggest mea culpa ever - Jim Bakker & Tammy Faye couldn't ever shed as many crocodile tears).
3. ADT & Revit as the bling bling tied to the purchase of AutoCAD seats.
4. Annual Maintenance fees and customer support plans from the mother ship.
5. the erosion of a dealer support network
6. license agreements that expire with annual upgrades.
7. inflexible terms for upgrades (upgrade all or none apparently)
8. grossly exaggerated claims about their software in both the media and print ads.
9. ???

I humbly suggest that you have blinders on when it comes to Autodesk, its products and its business model. In the past 10 years the the local Autodesk dealer has disappeared because their commission rate got lowered to a point that they couldn't support it. It was my experience that ADT was demonstrated by a piping draftsman which also speaks to the sustainability of a local dealer network that seems to have eroded. Our local AutoCAD dealer sells plotters. They don't know how buildings work and often can't answer questions about the plotter either.

I'm told by prospective clients that Autodesk does not allow partial site license upgrades; recent contact in the business also suggested that when it came to Revit and ADT there was no clearly set policy as to which platform to present - it sounded more like "promise the client whatever it takes to get the AutoCAD sale". Is the maintenance of both ADT and Revit good for the BIM business - to my way of thinking it really hits the client base in the gut.

Autodesk is no stranger to client outrage - recall the rollout of AutoCAD 14 with its packaged "live via satellite" simulcasts. It was all done with laserdiscs. (kind of like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain, actually).

The upgrade price structure for Graphisoft products has remained relatively stable in the 10 years that I've sold the product. Autodesk charges a flat fee per seat for annual maintenance plus it disowns your license if you don't upgrade. I can't comment on tech support plans in other countries, but the support network for ArchiCAD is dynamic and robust. I've said it before here, but I have clients who still have AC 4.55 and for whatever reason think that's just great.

If I were an Autodesk customer, why would I continue to pay money to remain in a perpetual state of limbo unless I had a lot of money tied up in Autodesk shares? Or in US politics. I understand that Carol Bartz is being touted as a serious candidate for the US presidency. Spooky.

[aahatimo]

looks like prices may be increasing in the us at the end of the month for multi seat users anyway. my fax back form states: please note that graphisoft is ending volume discount pricing of upgrades and new licenses starting oct 1, 2004. until then 1-4 sites $495, 5-9 $375, 10+ $345. after sept 30 2004 all upgrade seats are $595.
this lack of volume pricing may not help building or keeping the user base either.

[Vitruvius]

Aaron,

I do believe you've shot your bolt wide of the mark.

AutoCad is irrelevant. Revit is the story and the fact that AutoDesk purchased this technology is a meaningless anecdote at best.

The fact is that AutoDesk has a massive installed user base through AutoCad which provides a ready entry for their next generation product Revit. It is pointless to castigate AutoDesk for product and marketing failings because it doesn't really seem to have hurt their business, does it? And AC 8 was as big a turkey as has ever graced a Thanksgiving table.

GS has suddenly got a massive competitor with a huge user base and incredible resources. I like ArchiCAD but to be honest, your vilification of AutoDesk as a souless corporate machine isn't exactly going to sell software or make converts. It's AutoDesks job to maximize shareholder value. GS does the same. That is the business model of every corporation. And what relevance does a CEO pursuing a political career have to my architectural practice?

Finally, your assertion vis-a-vis Autodesk and MS products carrying pricing premiums overseas is just plain wrong (at least here in Asia). I'm overseas - I know what I'm talking about.

As a loyal customer of GS for over 10 years, I and other overseas users are fed up with the price gouging policies of their distributors. And I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to why we overseas users should just shut up and take it.

[Anonymous]

Who says Autodesk is an angel.

On the contrary.

The pricing policy is very different across the glob, with prices reaching as much as twice the US price.

AND

They force you to upgrade every 2 upgrades or you lose your right to upgrade!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was the main reason i left them. THis is pure blackmail. Why should i upgrade form AutocadV14 to any later version? As architect i see no reason.

So i looked elsewere and Archicad is a great solution.

(dont here my grinning all the time I prefer talking about bad things because those things have to be fixed