GS clearly does not take the residential architect seriously

[rm]

This is going to be a RANT. So if you are a full time GS apologist, you might want to move on.

This week I upgraded one of my dongles to AC 12, only one! For the majority of my last 15 years of using AC, I have used it on upper bracket residential projects. During that time I have purchased numerous 3rd party libraries for windows, doors, and furniture....because the AC library has had the same pieces of _ _ _ _ for the last 2000 years!!!

This while applications for significantly less money, mostly on the PC side - darn-it, have had features like cabinets that heal themselves when arranged in the plan, windows that actually don't have trim problems and are based on real US manufacturers, doors that don't have trim problems and are based on real US manufacturers, furniture that doesn't look like a kid with a crayon drew them, extrusions, lathes, and sweeps that can be rotated and adjust in 3D, like Objective can do. Obviously the objects should be location friendly, I don't mean to suggest every country should adopt the US objects as standard.....OK, done being politically correct.

I have personally been told by the GS CEO when v9 was out, that by issuance of v11 there would be a "new" and well sorted out library that would be "thoroughly" tested. BS.....I have v12, and I found problems with the windows after working with them less than 5 minutes.....see the attached image, so you know I'm not blowing smoke.

What the heck does it take for GS to build a decent library? Let me tell you, I will have to go kicking and screaming to Revit, but if thats what it takes to access a decent library, I will consider it. Currently you can't access anything on the Google 3D warehouse directly into AC12, and there is NO indication from GS when we will see the plug-in again, if at all. And if your on the Mac side, forget it, you don't have a prayer as the plug-in only worked on the Windows side of AC.

Obviously, if I have stuck with this program since v4.1 I think it is reasonably good. What I find inexcusable is GS willingness to keep putting out lousy standard library sets. In the world of BIM and Photorealistic renderings, GS should be providing a solid realistic library set.....they are not even close!!!!!

I have forwarded the bug to GS through tech support. I am shocked I found the bugs with the windows in less than 5 minutes of using the AC12. God knows what I will find when I dig in further with the doors.

For what I just spent on an upgrade, I am absolutely torqued at how lacking this library still is. The truth is, even 3rd party libraries are very limited - they hardly exist. Clearly GS has not been successful in getting buy-in from US manufacturers to create libraries the way AutoDesk has with Revit. While there are some very generous users out there that give away some very good objects ( THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU ) the majority of GDL objects available just are not realistic looking or don't stay current with AC.

I have suggested this before, and I will say it again. GS there are some really smart, good GDL gurus out there. Get off your wallet and hire these people to ONLY design objects or work with manufacturers of real Plumbing Fixtures, Light Fixtures, Doors, Windows, Furniture, etc....and pay them to test the objects thoroughly. I'm guessing a 1 million dollar investment in the libraries would yield something far superior to what you provide now....I guess 50 dollars might do that as well

.....hey Mr. Gallello - you getting any of this?

[Wokka]

Robert,
I'm sure they are too busy doing the C4D exchange plugin (which will be released shortly..............) to worry about 3D warehouse.
I'm starting to think it will be a Christmas present.

[Anonymous]

Hi
Kinda got here late. I also got sick of the **** library, So i did something about it.
We have built quite a good library of designer items for ArchiCAD (plus a lot of other useful stuff), you can see them at objectstop.com which may interest some of you.

We are looking at setting up a subscription service, for a high end GDL library. This would included hundreds more designer furniture items and things like pivot doors! and would constantly be updated/added to. It is also going to include a lot of country specific products. (basically stuff we all want, but don't seem to be a part of the standard library).

I think this is worth doing.
If we do, would you guys be interested in something like this?
As usual it comes down to money.
If so, what sort of monthly fee would you be willing to pay?

Maybe Graphisoft should pay us to produce/maintain the library? then it could be offered to everyone!

[Anonymous]

Hi sdb,

After 7 years in this ArchiCAD world, I have to confess that I don't believe in object library paid by end users...

I know that object developers have to be paid for their work... But not by end users.

Why do end users have to pay for objects that in the end will make money for the manufacturers?... For a fraction of what manufacturers pay in a marketing campaign they could pay an object developer to create and maintain a decent library... and with much more impact on sales...

I think end users, object developers and manufacturers just need an environment to fulfil their needs... and GS could take advantage of this and do something...

For me... The perfect AC library should be like this:

1. Totaly free of charge;

2. Web based and technically maintained by GS;

3. Accessed thru a multi language highly secure web portal;

4. Library access should only be made by creating an account;

5. Accounts would have 3 profiles:

"Administrator" (Rolled by GS staff with full access to all library content and functions ),
"Developer" (May create and manage their custom libraries and upload/update their own objects),
"End User" (May just create and manage their custom libraries);

6. The folder structure could be something like the attached image;

7. Additional folders in the "Public Library" folder should be submitted to an "Administrator" approval, which then add them;

8. Custom libraries can have their own folder structure containing links to the ArchiCAD Web Library objects;

9. The web system saves users custom libraries as .lcf files in the local AC "Libraries" folder;

10. Every time (or scheduled) AC opens, it searches for new updated objects in the web library, and if an object in a user custom library is updated,
then it automatically creates a new .lcf file and moves the old one to the AC "Libraries Backup" folder with its date and time;

11. If AC detects any object error, then the following chain would be activated:

a. AC automatically reverts to the backup library;
b. AC sends an error report to the web based system;
c. Web system reverts (in the GS server) the corrupted updated object to its previous stable version or delete it if there is no previous stable version;
d. Web system automatically sends a mail to the "Developer", communicating: the object rejecting, the error report and the account name/contact;/config;

12. Developers would be encouraged to use the easy to use-multi language-parametric-object-creation tool, which could be downloaded from the ArchiCAD Web Library portal;

13. Every new object created by a "Developer" would need an "Administrator" approval and be in accomplishment to the "GS User Interface Protocol";

14. Finally... GS would eliminate all previous doors and windows and substitute it to something like Cadimage's Door/Window builder or even a new add on tool;

IMO... If this could be done: End users would be happy with a bug free quality object library for their local markets... Manufacturers would improve their sales over the world... Object developers could earn a decent living.. And finally GS would have more time and resources to improve our beloved ArchiCAD.

But that's just my vision... Whats yours?

[Anonymous]

Hi Braza
Anderson, Pella and Marvin all have online free window and door objects,
Marvin is set up as .pla's Like a visual favorite.
As I'm sure you know there are lots of places to get library parts.
I don't think there should be a one big brother of library parts, but sure believe GS could and should do more as you suggest regarding libraries.
However I disagree with you regarding web based.
I don't want to rely on the internet for my key or my libraries on a daily bases.

The problem with web based is, it sets it up to easy for corporate control, hence leading POSSIBLY TO SUBSCRIPTION,. A really really bad thing in my opinion.
I would most likely stop upgrading AC. Heck, there are still quite productive architects, quite happy with 7!
Bier

[Anonymous]

Hi Braza
I completely agree!
Basically a company having their products integrated into AC is a very clever marketing tool for them.

And that is our main business model. We are working with manufacturers to build parametric objects of their products. Which they (& us) distribute to end users. Which in turn means more of their products are specified and bought, increasing their bottom line. It is simple, obvious and effective! a win-win.

We have already done this with a few companies and it has worked beautifully.
However the problem is most manufacturers aren't really aware of AC or GDL?
We go in show them how this will increase their sales blah blah (that is all they are interested in)
Then their so called "smart management", decided not to go with it, but will still blow $15,000 on a rubbish TV advertising campaign!!! which doesn't really produce any results and they can't measure it!

Anyway that's our problem to solve.
We are working on this, however in order to get more companies on board we are having to promote GDL (isn't that Graphisoft's job? maybe i should also be buying some shares in the company? )

We are getting there, but it is a slow process. The annoying part is that lots of companies are happily integrating their products into Revit. Which may have something to do with Autodesk being such a giant. Even though ArchiCAD is far bigger in my country.

We are going to be adding another part to our site, where people can suggest GDL objects which are needed. This will Hopefully put pressure on companies to get their products into ArchiCAD.
However in the mean time the only way to get some objects will be to buy them from sites like ours or others.
eg. We wanted an Aeron chair object, Herman & Miller didn't want to pay us to build one. So the only way, was to build it & sell it from our site. ?

So until more companies wake up and realize that they should be supporting ArchiCAD, a lot of objects will not be able to be free.
Heck, if we could get $1 a month from a few thousand ArchiCAD users, we would happily let everyone use all of our library objects and it would grow a lot faster.

It's all quite interesting really. AC has been around for so long, yet most manufacturers have no idea about it. (at least in my experience).

I think the best way to actually start the ball rolling is this:
Next time a sales rep comes to your office with their dxf & dwgs. Just say NO we need parametric GDL objects & .mod files!

On a different note, Cadimage's Door & window builder is great. It should be made a standard part of ArchiCAD.

[Dwight]

sdb wrote:
we are having to promote GDL

GDL Promoter: "Hello, sir. I am here to promote GDL in your company."

Manufacturer: "Huh?"

GDL Promoter: "Yes. We will model your products and architects will use them in Archicad, and this will influence their clients to buy your windows/faucets/furniture. We won't charge much."

Manufacturer: "Huh? I thought that is why we pay off contractors, spec writers and interior designers. And advertise on TV with expensive and unmeasurable ads."

GDL Promoter:"We won't charge much and you will reach architects all over the world."

Manufacturer: "But we already reach architects all over the world with our Revit objects and they already work with Autocad. You are from Autocad aren't you?"

[Anonymous]

haha that is so true!

GDL Promoter: "Ok, we will cut our price so it's even lower than what you spend each day advertising in a magazine."

Manufacturer: "but we have a website"


Autodesk enters: "We have a new product"

Manufacturer: "Fantastic. I will happily pay you loads to integrate our products into your software. Even though it doesn't run on macs and far more of our clients use ArchiCAD"

hmmmmm

[Anonymous]

Bier,

I know there's lot of good free gdl objects available... But they are all dispersed and I don't want to worry if the object I'm inserting in my projects are updated or not...
About your concerns regarding a web based solution... I think GS could build a web system where the end user could choose between working online or off-line. But the reason I think the web base is the way, is because with an online web system, GS could make real time statistics of object use and use them to attract more manufacturers to join the initiative...
and besides this... imagine if you could insert your object and know the exact real time price of the piece?... or send a buy order to the manufacturer from AC?...
I know the security thing is crucial... but I don't think there's other way... its the future!

sdb,

I have to tell you that I'm happy to see some initiatives like your site... you are in the right direction... but I'm afraid its not enough...
The lack of reaction of a manufacturer is directly related with the lack of trust... In the end they all analyse the risks, numbers, reports, statistics...
If you just tell them that your new gdl library will increase the sales... they don't move... they want to know how much... how faster... where... whom...
And that's not our problem... it's GS's... we just use this yet marvelous piece of software called ArchiCAD... I'd like to use it forever...
but if GS don't promote a community around AC, I'm afraid that's just a matter of time to the end of this software...

Dwight,

You couldn't be more illustrative of how a manufacturer think...
You can only catch them attention with numbers... Like this:

GDL Promoter: We can give you a monthly report of how much, where and whom is specifying your products...

Manufacturer: Wow!...

GDL Promoter: And if you think it's not enough... we can offer an extra feature to your objects... a state of the art button that automatically sends an on-line buy order directly to your offices...

Manufacturer: Where must I sign?...

[Anonymous]

Hi Braza
Thoughtful ideas for sure, however, one specific concern.

Although security will always, always be of concern with the internet, that is not what I was most concerned about with my comments.

What concerns me is total central control of my ability to choose.
It's about the freedom to go my own way if I choose.
If this gets set up, the way you describe, the drift towards central control and your ability to continue your individualized/unique perspective on design, manufacturer, (competitive bidding), and on and on, would be compromised beyond what I want.
Don't let anybody put the last completing link of a chain around your ability to choose if you can help it. Think M.S. Break the chain.
Don't let anybody sell you "their" utopia. It's a trap!

As Auto you know who, gets better and better, one of the most compelling reasons to choose AC will be, (if we can hang on to it) is the non subscription status.
Bier

[Anonymous]

Hi Bier,

Bier wrote:
What concerns me is total central control of my ability to choose.

I totally agree with you... and all the web developers should... The great thing about web is that it's made by people... not servers... not pcs... not macs...
Without people the internet wouldn't even exist. The web's beauty is that it can (an should) gets to anywhere the end user's imagination could get...
And it has to leave room for the "Why not?" question... as Bernard Shaw well said once...
The suggestion I've made is my own vision of a starting point for a better AC library management... and concerns like yours and others could and should be easily addressed...
Thank you for your thoughts. And lets just hope this message leads to something new and good for us end users...