How does ArchiCAD TeamWork work?

[Christiaan]

Hi, I'm a VectorWorks Architect user, and I've just been having a discussion about adding a collaboration system like ArchiCAD TeamWork to VectorWorks. i.e. I've put it on the wishlist.

I'm interested in how people find the system. Does it work well? Or are you constantly running into problems or barriers?

Also, how does it actually work? Is ArchiCAD a database driven program? Presumably the TeamWork system could not be implemented using a normal file based system?

[TomWaltz]

Teamwork allows you to sign out parts of the project, usually by some combination of floors, layers, and a windowed area (called a Marquee).

It also allows you to sign out views of the model such as elevations, sections, details, and sheets.

I'll be the first to say that it's a little weird, but I've found it to work reliably for projects up to 4 or 5 people without much problem. More than that requires a little more planning or perhaps dividing the project file so there are not as many people in any one file. We've probably done about 60 teamwork projects going back to Archicad 8.

It does require a change in your thinking though, since rarely can a person take an entire printed sheet to work on since so much of the project is model-based. That's true of Archicad in general, though, not just Teamwork.

I'm not sure what you mean "using a normal file based system"

[Christiaan]

TomWaltz wrote:
I'll be the first to say that it's a little weird

Wierd as in different from the expected or wierd as in difficult to comprehend?

TomWaltz wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean "using a normal file based system"

Well someone on the VectorWorks forum told me you couldn't achieve a system like this with the use of a database. And VectorWorks uses files, not a database.

[TomWaltz]

Christiaan wrote:

TomWaltz wrote:
I'll be the first to say that it's a little weird

Wierd as in different from the expected or wierd as in difficult to comprehend?

Different from the expected. In concept, it's pretty simple. Pick what layers, on what floors, and what sections/details you want. In execution, it's a lot finer than that. The thing that makes it weird is that you are dividing a 3D model and 2D drawings among multiple people, and it requires a little thought.

TomWaltz wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean "using a normal file based system"

Well someone on the VectorWorks forum told me you couldn't achieve a system like this with the use of a database. And VectorWorks uses files, not a database.

Archicad seems to use SQL to generate reports and such. It's all one big file and I never really thought about whether it was a file or a database. I guess it's never been relevant.

[Christiaan]

TomWaltz wrote:
Different from the expected. In concept, it's pretty simple. Pick what layers, on what floors, and what sections/details you want. In execution, it's a lot finer than that. The thing that makes it weird is that you are dividing a 3D model and 2D drawings among multiple people, and it requires a little thought.

Sounds like a panacea to me. I've found working in a team on VectorWorks projects to be very restrictive, especially if you use both 2D & 3D.

Archicad seems to use SQL to generate reports and such. It's all one big file and I never really thought about whether it was a file or a database. I guess it's never been relevant.

Well it's the blind leading the blind then. The crux of the discussion was that you need a database driven program and that database driven programs are expensive (something that VectorWorks currently isn't).

You can read the discussion here if you like (be warned that some of it is a little of topic and cumbersome):
http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=74342
Of particular interest might be this post:
http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=74342#Post74464

[TomWaltz]

Christiaan wrote:

TomWaltz wrote:
Different from the expected. In concept, it's pretty simple. Pick what layers, on what floors, and what sections/details you want. In execution, it's a lot finer than that. The thing that makes it weird is that you are dividing a 3D model and 2D drawings among multiple people, and it requires a little thought.

Sounds like a panacea to me. I've found working in a team on VectorWorks projects to be very restrictive, especially if you use both 2D & 3D.

Believe me, it's not perfect and could be better, but it does work.

It's true that if one person takes the ceiling and another the walls, you could have some conflicts.

It's impossible for one person to take doors and another the wall the door is in since Archicad makes the doors a part of the wall. You take the wall, you get all the doors in it.

The most common divisions are more along the lines of "Interior and Exterior" or "Model-based and 2D based"

[Christiaan]

TomWaltz wrote:
The most common divisions are more along the lines of "Interior and Exterior" or "Model-based and 2D based"

Well, that would be great.

I touch on that here too:
http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=33028

[Christiaan]

TomWaltz wrote:
It's impossible for one person to take doors and another the wall the door is in since Archicad makes the doors a part of the wall. You take the wall, you get all the doors in it.

Although you could be working in another layer (or story or whatever you call them), while someone else works on the doors in all the other layers right?

[TomWaltz]

Christiaan wrote:

TomWaltz wrote:
It's impossible for one person to take doors and another the wall the door is in since Archicad makes the doors a part of the wall. You take the wall, you get all the doors in it.

Although you could be working in another layer (or story or whatever you call them), while someone else works on the doors in all the other layers right?

A story in Archicad is an entire floor of the building.

Usually, someone will take certain layers on certain stories, say the "Stairs" layer on all stories to work on the stair tower or the "Exterior Wall" and "Exterior Trim" layers on all stories to work on the exterior of the building. Someone else might take "interior walls", "interior trim" and "millwork" layers in a windowed area on just the first floor to work on the main entry lobby. These could all be happening at the same time.

Part of it is planning your layer structure to work with Teamwork, making sure you can divide the parts the way you want.

[Christiaan]

Thanks for comments Tom.

After reading some of the reviews and other guff, from what I can tell the system works by dishing out a copy of the file (referred to as a "satelite") with certain parts of the project effectively locked, and then when the user wants to introduce any changes back into the master file the system synchronises the master with the satelite. Sounds quite robust.