Merging Fills & Line types in attribute manager?

[Anonymous]

I am wanting to get rid of allot of fills and line types that are simular/duplicates caused from importing details.
Each detail is independent therefore the find and select tool is not much help in finding the unwanted fills/lines in order to change them.
Is there a way to merge an existing (unwanted) fill/line with the correct fill/line so that I don't have to hunt and peck?
Or at least a safe way to purge and not loose info.

[David Maudlin]

Lindsay:

Not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish (remove the lines & fills themselves, or removing them as attributes from the file), but a few things you might check out:

Check Duplicates Add On available at http://www.graphisoft.com/support/archicad/downloads/goodies12/USA.html
and the commands Linework Consolidation and Fill Consolidation (these maybe needed to be added to your Work Environment).

You should add a Signature to your Profile (click the Profile button near the top of this page) with your ArchiCAD version and operating system (see mine for an example) for more accurate help in this forum.

HTH

David

[Anonymous]

You should add a Signature to your Profile (click the Profile button near the top of this page) with your ArchiCAD version and operating system (see mine for an example) for more accurate help in this forum.

Thanks for the suggestion David.

Not exactly sure what you are trying to accomplish

What I'm trying to do...I'm almost sure its not an option. I have looked at the Consolidation tools...but thanks for the tip.

I have been creating a master template for our firm with the majority of our details already created as independent details and set on the appropriate sheets. I am also trying to created a structured fill type list and line type list that is concise...getting rid of all the fills we do not use or are duplicates of some sort. I have created a worksheet that has all the fills and another with all the line types we want to keep so that I can perform a purge and not lose anything we want to keep. These worksheets also work well for using the eye dropper to pick up properties.
The problem I have encountered is that now that I have created all my independent details I have a few unwanted fills and line types used within random details. In order to find these fills I have to hunt them down and change them to the fills/line types we are keeping. There is no 'find and select' feature which will look within all details at once. Creating a custom schedule has the same limitations. I have purged but a few fills and lines remain. I hate to delete them without knowing where they may be used at.
As I continue to hone our template I will most likely run into this problem with materials and composites as well.
I can only do so much cleaning to prevent unwanted layer and other element types from leaking into my concise template. I'm just looking for the most efficient way to clean things up.

Sorry for the novel.
Hoping someone out there has some suggestions!
Thanks

[Karl Ottenstein]

Designr wrote:
I am also trying to created a structured fill type list and line type list that is concise...getting rid of all the fills we do not use or are duplicates of some sort. I have created a worksheet that has all the fills and another with all the line types we want to keep so that I can perform a purge and not lose anything we want to keep.

Arrr. There be dragons there...

Hi Lindsay,

There isn't an easy way to do the find operations in your details that you discuss. But, there are some possibilities for replacement, if not merging - and part of that requires that you (and anyone reading this thinking 'that sounds like a good idea') fully understands how ArchiCAD stores attributes and uses them in libraries.

To avoid dragons, it is really essential that you not purge any linetypes or fills that might be used in any library parts (you'll end up with 'missing') - and moreover that you never create a new linetype or fill (or material, etc) at the same INDEX number - because then the library part - or the detail - will reference something entirely different. Create your own new attributes in some upper numerical range above the standard ones via manipulation in Attribute Manager. (Link gave a good tutorial here on that some time ago.)

For example, in the US template, the fill "07 | Insulation Batt" is at index 18 in the US template. If you purge that, then any library part (or existing building element) using that fill will show it as missing'. If you create a new fill after having purged, and that fill ends up at index 18, then that new fill will appear anyplace that references fill #18. So, your wall on plan that used to look like insulation could not look like concrete.

If aware of this operation, you can play with it to your advantage ... with your own attributes (above the ArchiCAD index numbers). But, changing any attribute that is in the delivered index range is dangerous down the road when you go to place new library objects because those objects, which had (allegedly) reasonable defaults for their appearance, will now require lots of parameter changes to make them look correct.

If you don't care about library part default appearance (including runtime errors), and don't collaborate with other firms and also intend to keep your attribute assignments for all projects moving forwards (so that you can re-use existing work) ... then of course you do whatever you like.

If only things were simpler...

Cheers,
Karl

[Anonymous]

Karl, You make some really good points. I hadn't thought of some and have already encountered some of the others. Thank goodness I've been saving copies along the way and can step back to a post 'problematic' purge!

To avoid dragons, it is really essential that you not purge any linetypes or fills that might be used in any library parts (you'll end up with 'missing') - and moreover that you never create a new linetype or fill (or material, etc) at the same INDEX number - because then the library part - or the detail - will reference something entirely different.

The pesky fills that bother me most are the ones Autocad creates when importing details. I have no problem with my conscience when deleting these...I just want to know where they are hiding at (line types, likewise).
My other dilemma is having a fill that is simular to the fill I want to keep. My "wish" is that I could simply change the name of the duplicate fill pattern to the same name as the fill pattern we want to keep (or that archicad has indexed) and they magically could be one in the same. This way I would not have to sift through all my details and hunt down the intruder.

Thanks again for the tip....I'm reverting back to post purge now! I'll try to keep indexing in mind as I purge or delete when cleaning up house!

One more Question!! The indexing numbers....
Once I have gotten rid of all the imported fills/lines that have no value to archicad, how do I eliminate the large gap in index numbers. Ex: the indexed archicad used #s(1-say 40) then all the deleted ones and then ones I have created way over in the 1&200s ...1,2 skip a few 99,100? Can I get rid of the gap in numbers, or should I just not even care?

Thanks!!

[Karl Ottenstein]

Designr wrote:
One more Question!! The indexing numbers....
Once I have gotten rid of all the imported fills/lines that have no value to archicad, how do I eliminate the large gap in index numbers. Ex: the indexed archicad used #s(1-say 40) then all the deleted ones and then ones I have created way over in the 1&200s ...1,2 skip a few 99,100? Can I get rid of the gap in numbers, or should I just not even care?

You're welcome. 😉

Don't worry about any gaps. In general. The gaps don't affect performance or the UI (which is by name other than Attribute Manager).

But, here's the deal. With gaps, if you create a new attribute in its own dialog, the new one will go into the first available slot - which might very well conflict with the current or future library. So, if you want to avoid any potential pitfalls, however slim the probability, immediately after creating a new attribute (your own real one - not the garbage from AutoCAD) - go into attribute manager and copy it (overwrite) to the right, delete it from the left, and then select on the right and append it from the right back to the left. That will append it at after the highest index number attribute.

Here's a trick: create a dummy attribute at index 200 (300? 400?) for each attribute and name it z-unused or something like that so that the name is sorted to the bottom of every list. Then, when you append your own attributes, they will all be in a number range above that - easily identified, and likely not to conflict with the default attributes of some future version of ArchiCAD.

Use Link's (I think?) trick to create the dummy attribute - copy something over to the right side of Attribute Manager and then duplicate it as many times as it takes to get up to one the desired index number (200?). Then, just select the item at that number (200?) and OVERWRITE it back to the left. Overwrite uses exactly the same index number. Then rename it on the left.

See also this article on attributes and hotlinks:
http://www.archicadwiki.com/Layer%20and%20attribute%20management%20in%20hotlinks

To avoid the appending mentioned there, I try to keep all of my attributes coordinated across all modules of a project.

I wish things could be easier...perhaps one day. 😉

Karl

[Anonymous]

Karl,
Thanks again. You are a huge help! My co-worker and I had somewhat discussed using the attribute manager to overwrite to correct things....but your detailed directions are super helpful.

Here's a trick: create a dummy attribute at index 200 (300? 400?) for each attribute and name it z-unused or something like that so that the name is sorted to the bottom of every list. Then, when you append your own attributes, they will all be in a number range above that - easily identified, and likely not to conflict with the default attributes of some future version of ArchiCAD.

Furthermore, moving all my new/created attributes to higher indexes to make room for future versions is far more more forward thinking than I would have done and will be a life saver down the road.
I had been having trouble with an insulation fill showing up in my door jambs as the default in the library. I think this may have happened from updating from 11 to 12 and we had something indexed where 12 would have put a more appropriate fill for the jambs.
Oh well... I guess I know how to fix that now

[Karl Ottenstein]

Glad to have helped!

Karl