!Restored: ¿News about AC 12?

[Anonymous]

Hi all!


¿Anybody knows anything about AC 12, please?


I'm hearing rumours, but nothing concrete...


Thanks a lot and regards.



P.S. Like another user says: "forgive my spanglish..."

[Thomas Holm]

Karl wrote:
Relax

Hear, hear

[Bricklyne Clarence]

Karl wrote:
The passion in this discussion is pretty remarkable to me.

Stefan stated the case simply. Every other manufacturer operates the same way as Graphisoft is. So, a Texas reseller might have been booted? And unauthorized information on web sites was taken down. How is this wrong or unusual?

Apple shut down a rumors site this past year as many know. IBM, Apple, Microsoft, etc. aggressively protected their intellectual rights - why shouldn't Graphisoft?

As all other manufacturers - GS has apparently provided pre-release marketing materials to resellers, so that they can prepare their web site etc in order to be ready to market on day 1 of the official release. This, too, is no different than Apple: MacMall and all Apple resellers are ready on day 1 to put up web pages selling new products. You can be guaranteed that they have had this info for some time, and know that they will not be Apple resellers any longer if they leak any of it.

So, why the screaming about Graphisoft?

M.A.D. knew better, and presumably has a financial penalty to pay for violating their contract. Who knows. But the fact that somebody violated a contract doesn't all of a sudden make all information fair game, and GS the evil demon for maintaining their established schedule.

If GS talked about 12 at AIA Boston and other venues, then unless the people listening signed an agreement, they can share what they learned here. Those under agreement cannot (legally) do so.

Relax,
Karl

Jeeez people.
Nobody is screaming. Nobody is up in arms or shouting about anything. Merely asking what we believe to be legitimate questions.

My question from before, (and I still maintain that it was a valid question) was that while I understand that Graphisoft have always had this mode of operation with regards to soon-to-be released version and maintaining a veil of secrecy around the product, I honestly did not understand how tweaking that policy to facilitate a controlled release of information on upgrades and improvements could possibly hurt their marketing policy or otherwise, when it could actually help the resellers themselves while simultaneously calming user anxieties and concerns on places such as this forum. If anything one could argue that the current status quo, their secrecy methodology and keeping everything tight-lipped and under-wraps until the actual release all that was actually hurting them from the perspective of Autodesk's aggressive marketing of Revit particularly here in North America.

Clearly this mode of operation will not cause significant harm to their market-base of existing and continuing users looking to upgrade because they are already well apprised of ArchiCAD's existing strong features. Even though it could likely aggravate them as it has some on this board. But to wit, take the case of a new user looking to switch from 2D CAD drafting to some sort of BIM workflow and who's shopping around.
If such an architect goes to a reseller and all the reseller gives him a demo of Revit 2009, versus a demo of ArchiCAD 11 with the promise that the soon to be released ArchiCAD 12 will have much improved features and upgrades only that he (the reseller) is not allowed to say at this point what those strong selling points are, that potential customer is highly unlikely to be swayed by the wait-and-see pitch or approach in trying to decide not to buy Revit in the hopes that ArchiCAD 12 may or may not be all that it is promised in some circles to be. Particularly when he can easily download a Revit 2009 version and try it out in that waiting period and particularly in the face of Autodesk's relentless and full-court media barrage.

That's just one simple example of how such a policy can hurt a company that's ostensibly the underdog, by all conceivable metrics, in the marketplace. And its not even counting the number of firms who would switch having gotten tired of waiting for GS to address long-standing wishes while Autodesk continues to court them day and night as far as existing users are concerned.

How other people can't see that is beyond me.

In any case, I'm not demanding nor trying to dictate to GS how they should market or handle their product, I just believe that they 've been hurting themselves for the longest time with an overall flawed marketing and PR approach and this example is merely symptomatic of an overall concern. That's all.

As for the censorship of posts on this board, I am yet to understand how someone like Oreopulous' posts ( who's not a beta-tester nor a reseller as far as I know) merited being deleted without explanation being as speculative and uninformed as they were. But maybe that's just me.



p.s. I don't believe I screamed or shouted once, while writing this post - literally, metaphorically, syntactically or otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Not that its important but the part that people that heard can share here its not true. The post that pointed to the link AND the comments about it were deleted.

Anyway. I hope its a great release. I believe it wont (Based on history).

Sooner or later i will have to move to revit (unfortunately). I dont see relationships brought into the game, and for the way i think and work they are important.

I also guess i will see zero cost estimation tools AGAIN (making it 4th in a row version without a single function in that field).
I am afraid i will have to face the same AWFUL material editor, struggle with no keynotes and be amazed by the lack of landscape tools.

Some of the new features rumoured are great. But some versions brought almost nothing into the game and the application has been left behind. With this pace it wont be even an option in a few years. I hoped competition will bring the product to a faster pace in development but i was mistaken

I also hope GS understands that an architect cannot code in GDL to produce decent object and do somthing similar to revit families.

[Anonymous]

Case in point. My reseller told me what was in the Beta because he is giving us a deadline for a reduced price deal that runs out Thursday - 5/28/08.
I, in turn am trying to pry loose some money for the upgrades and was able to tout the features of 12, which will be included if we upgrade.
Sadly, it looks as though we will stay mired in V9 even with the knowledge of what's in 10,11, and now 12.
My two cents. If this were a poll I would vote for GS to be more up front with new releases, but I do not have a huge problem with their current stance.

[Thomas Holm]

Bricklyne wrote:
As for the censorship of posts on this board, I am yet to understand how someone like Oreopulous' posts ( who's not a beta-tester nor a reseller as far as I know) merited being deleted without explanation being as speculative and uninformed as they were. But maybe that's just me.

Bricklyne, you're a fast typist. The sheer volume of your posts may be felt like shouting to some

As for the censorship, I'd say this is Graphisoft's forum. They have the right to remove whatever they want. You might want to check the Etiquette label at the top of this page. Read it all, especially the last sentence.

Actually, I've been surprised several times that they haven't enforced the etiquette more strictly, like for example the name rules.

So I'm not at all surprised that they remove posts with references to information that has, somewhere on its way, been obtained by someone or other violating a contract or a NDA. They have the right to decide what's against their business interest. Just as you have regarding your own business!

You have th right to try to convince them to change their policy.I don't think you'll succeed, though. They do as most of like companies do.

[__archiben]

there is nothing similar in the way graphisoft and apple deal with this issue. you all seem to be forgetting that as secretive as apple are, they do tend to preview most of their new stuff weeks, even months, prior to its final release: they create a buzz. people want the product before it is even on the shelves . . .

yes, they did shut down a rumour site too. maybe they don't want someone else stealing their thunder? and certainly not making money out of it. a mac rumour site isn't an apple reseller.

graphisoft could do a lot worse than follow that as a marketing model . . .

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine why people like Mozilla, Opera, Ubuntu, Microsoft, etc etc, releases public betas and release candidates of their software and then they pretend to make business. They should take notice of a well managed Graphisoft (Nemetschek?) campaign of how to keep a secret under an enigma inside of a mystery and then how to turn that into a full powered benefit count.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

~/archiben wrote:
there is nothing similar in the way graphisoft and apple deal with this issue. you all seem to be forgetting that as secretive as apple are, they do tend to preview most of their new stuff weeks, even months, prior to its final release: they create a buzz. people want the product before it is even on the shelves . . .

.......
. . .

......and that right there, is the key word. Buzz.

Not too surprisingly Apple are the masters nonpareil in the whole 'Buzz' and hype-creation/hype management game, and look at what its been able to do for them beyond the Mac and OSX/OSX software world with first - the Ipod revolution and now with Iphones.

And it should come as no surprise that Apple - a company who are no less uber-secretive about their upcoming products than GS are - were more or less forced to adopt and master this strategy because they too were in the exact same situation that GS now find themselves in -i.e. a vastly overmatched company, in terms of resources and funding in comparison to their chief rivals (Microsoft for Apple and obviously Autodesk for GS), yet with an arguably far superior product (Macs, and now IPods and Iphones). If they didn't adopt a strategy wherein they intelligently managed the product marketing of their well-designed product, just as they had failed to with Apples and Macs many decades ago, then they obviously risked having the Ipod and Iphone falling into the same "Niche" trap that their Computers had long been consigned to - which is precisely the same shoe-box that Autodesk are trying box GS and AC into.

I'm not saying that this was the basic or sole reason for the runaway success of the Ipod and now the Iphone;but it certainly helped a lot.
Naturally, it also doesn't hurt that the Ipod and Iphone are well designed products (just like ArchiCAD, but then again so was the Apple, and so is the Mac) and it also doesn't hurt that Steve Jobs, who usually drives and orchestrates these preview events, is a charismatic wordsmith who knows how to give a show, and pre-sell a product long before it's ever released.

It's a game which, if Graphisoft don't learn and master fast, they'll never be able to slay their own Goliath; especially while having a vastly superior tool and will quickly find themselves consigned into that "Niche-firm" shoebox with their "Niche" product and us playing their "Niche" clientele; sooner than they think.

[Anonymous]

All this fuss about secrecy, disclosure, programmed releases....

Actually the key point is, at the end of the day, the software.
As purchasers and/or users of the software we naturally have to be concerned with its continued viability, efficiency, flexibility, development etc. Therefore everyone is keen to see what 12 offers. Firms that have invested in subscriptions will want reassurance their investment is worthwhile.

And as for release dates slipping....the cynic in me wonders what happens if that date slips beyond the 2 year subscription we signed...we were told it would include the update as they are on a yearly cycle now. Of course if "we" all renew our subscriptions this is not an issue. What I don't like is that assumption.

[Anonymous]

Karl wrote:
So, a Texas reseller might have been booted? And unauthorized information on web sites was taken down. How is this wrong or unusual?

Gee, how nice for you that you can have such a cavalier attitude...