Still very slow in 2D in AC10

[Anonymous]

I just spent some time searching on and reading about users who feel 'slower' when using AC10 compared to 9. I've been fighting this for sometime, thinking it was just something I need to get used to, but I've had it. Creative can not flow if I am constantly waiting for the program to allow me to move an object, or wall, or anything.

This thread gave some good information:
http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=11712&postdays=0&postorder=desc&&start=0

But this isn't enough. Switching to a smaller screen? BAD idea. Switching to a single screen? BAD idea. Turning off features? BAD idea.

How about 'make the program faster'. Now THERE is a good idea. Seriously though - I click on an object, and I have to wait, sometimes up to 2 full seconds before the info palette has the information and I am able to move the object. If I attempt to move it before the system 'catches up with me', then I get a copy, or it moves part way, the screen refreshes and the object/wall/anything goes back to where it was.

With dimensioning, I grab my favorite and click a point, I wait maybe a second or more for that object to 'light up', then wait another 2 seconds or so for the info palette to load its data - and THEN I am able to click my next point. When trying to do ALL the dimensioning on a simple log home, it used to take a few minutes and now its well into the 10-15 minutes. This isn't right.

A better example is editing a label text. Besides just being generally slow, After having added a label, I need to change the text. So - I double click on the text - wait >1 second - the label becomes 'selected' - wait another second or more - the text editing window pops up - wait another second or more - the information palette loads data - wait another second or more - the curser now appears in the text editing window and I can begin typing/editing my text. hmmm... Thats 5 seconds or more PER label. I wish I could post a video of this - its insanely slow - nearly comical if I wasn't so frustrated with it.

I'm running a:
Dell Precision PWS470
Xeon CPU 3.40GHz
3.39 GHz, 3.00 GB of RAM
(I actually have 4 gig of RAM, but the computer doesn't seem to want to recognize the 4th stick.)

I have the latest AC10 updates.

Can anyone give me some ideas?

I'm not just a nay-sayer - AC10 (for us) is MILES ahead of AC9 in just about every way except for this 2D floor plan editing issue. We have improved productivity on a grand scale and I could NEVER go back to AC9 now.

[Anonymous]

I feel your pain, Sir Dunc.

I'm finding details are taking 5-6 seconds to become active when getting to them via the view map. That is, double click detail view, wait... wait... wait... before you can edit, scroll, zoom or select anything. I hadn't noticed this before, but maybe that is because I am using details more than I used to. Independent details (not linked to a detail marker) don't appear to suffer from this to the same extent, only a second or two delay.

Is this a new "feature" or has it always been the case and I just hadn't noticed?

[Anonymous]

The only sluggishness I have experienced recently is editing in 3D with multiple meshes and SEOs (a site with subtracted paths, drives, foundations, etc.). Otherwise everything is very snappy, even with large complex files, in both OS X and WinXP.

Perhaps it's the CoreDuo processor. I only have 2GB RAM, but haven't found this to be a problem unless I am running multiple sessions of ArchiCAD along with Photoshop (PPC emulation with a memory hog) in OSX.

I believe that the 3GB RAM limit is common to all 32 bit systems. (I imagine that's why the new MacBook Pro has a 3GB maximum.) I assume that your XEON machine is of the older 32 bit variety and not one of the brand new 64 bit ones.

It could be your video card. You should check that the drivers are up to date.

[Srinivas]

Recently I visted one of our customer who is pretty disappointed with ArchiCAD in terms of its 2D capabilities.

The major problem what he says is that the cursor size is too small and it is not possible to increase this size and also the cursor snap range is too small ( max. value is 9 pixels) which is effecting their productivity when compared to AutoCAD.

Anyone here feel the same when working with ArchiCAD on a 17" monitor?

[Anonymous]

Srinivas wrote:
Recently I visted one of our customer who is pretty disappointed with ArchiCAD in terms of its 2D capabilities.

The major problem what he says is that the cursor size is too small and it is not possible to increase this size and also the cursor snap range is too small ( max. value is 9 pixels) which is effecting their productivity when compared to AutoCAD.

Anyone here feel the same when working with ArchiCAD on a 17" monitor?

In my experience a snap range from 3 to 5 pixels seems best depending on the monitor resolution and the user's eyesight. I can't imagine using a 9 pixel range as I would be spending so much time zooming in to make sure i have the point I want.

Lots of AutoCAD users complain about ArchiCAD's 2D because they don't know how to use it (at least not nearly as well as they know AutoCAD). Every AutoCAD user I have trained comes to prefer ArchiCAD's 2D tools and methods once they understand them (some have refused to learn but that is another matter).

It is always difficult to make a transition from one complex program to another very different one. There is often a tendency to blame the unfamiliar rather than make the effort to learn.

[Srinivas]

Thanks Mathew for your input. We tried to convey the same with the users, but they are not at all listening to us.

We don't want to hurt there "EGO" so we accepted saying OK your AutoCAD is strong.

Honestly I never felt the cursor size as a problem, maybe because we are selling ArchiCAD here .

[Anonymous]

Srinivas wrote:
Thanks Mathew for your input. We tried to convey the same with the users, but they are not at all listening to us.

We don't want to hurt there "EGO" so we accepted saying OK your AutoCAD is strong.

Honestly I never felt the cursor size as a problem, maybe because we are selling ArchiCAD here .

It sounds to me that they are looking for things to complain about. There are some serious difficulties in making the shift from AutoCAD drawing methods to ArchiCAD (or Revit) building methods, but they are not with the drafting capabilities. They may be scared of what they don't know and respond by being critical of what they think they do know.

The building model process is very complex and VERY different from 2D drafting. Many proficient AutoCAD users will never become proficient building modelers. I have found that a successful adoption of building modeling requires at least one person in the office that "gets it" and can champion the process through the inevitable difficulties. This process still can accommodate plenty of drafters and seasoned architects (even hand drafting) but there must be a core of modeling skill for it to work.

It is not necessary to insult their egos. Many AutoCAD users are very good at what they do.

If they are serious about trying ArchiCAD, one way to get them started is to choose the person in the firm who is most able and willing to take on the challenge and have them start in schematic phase on a single project. The views can always be saved to DWG for completion by others using their current methods while the lead ArchiCAD person continues to gain proficiency into design development and finally full CDs.

The progress of this will depend on many factors and should not be overly rushed (though it must be pushed with all reasonable speed - one can tinker with it forever without getting anywhere). It is better to have a small success than a big failure.

BTW: I do sometimes find the crosshair cursor a bit small and easy to lose track of.

[Thomas Holm]

Matthew wrote:
I do sometimes find the crosshair cursor a bit small and easy to lose track of.

In MacOSX (at least 10.4), System Preferences, Universal Access there is a Mouse etc. pane that has a Cursor Size option. There you can enlarge the cursor interactively on-the-fly as you like. It works with all cursors, in all programs, System as well as Archicad and even MSOffice, and the setting is saved automatically. Even if you are not disabled in any way, I find it helpul with large high-resolution screens.

I also use a small utility that's called Mouse Locator
http://www.2point5fish.com/
Very helpul if you've turned away from the screen for a moment and can't find the cross-hair!

[Anonymous]

Matthew wrote:
There is often a tendency to blame the unfamiliar rather than make the effort to learn.

This is the reason that I spent so much time trying to learn the new flow of AC10, assuming that with the enhancments the delays are inevitable. I didn't want to blame the program for the delays if it was actually myself not using the program correctly. But after months now of working and working at trying to 'deal' with this - I just can't take it any longer. I have to conclude that AC10 is significantly slower in 2D particularly than it was in AC9.

Unfortunatly, the delays in click and drag also extends into the 3D window where I can click on a roof to start an SEO or Trim to Roof and when I go to click on the second roof - the first actually moves and repositions itself - after which I am required to undo it, then do the process again - just significantly slower the second time.

I'll do some research into my video card, but these computers are supposed to be pretty new still (within the last 4 months) so I have to assume the card isn't a problem. And - btw, I have a NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI video card. If anyone has had trouble with this card, please let me know.

And an additional FYI - I have winamp, outlook 2003, Internet Explorer and Excel all running at the same time. Sometimes, I'll have as many as 3 AC and 2 Excels running. While I understand that will slow things down - it never did in AC9.

[Anonymous]

sirduncan wrote:

Matthew wrote:
There is often a tendency to blame the unfamiliar rather than make the effort to learn.

This is the reason that I spent so much time trying to learn the new flow of AC10, assuming that with the enhancments the delays are inevitable. I didn't want to blame the program for the delays if it was actually myself not using the program correctly. But after months now of working and working at trying to 'deal' with this - I just can't take it any longer. I have to conclude that AC10 is significantly slower in 2D particularly than it was in AC9.

I assume you understand that I was talking about AutoCAD users who are reluctant to learn a new way of working. You are clearly an experienced user who is experiencing unacceptable performance problems. I had similar serious performance problems in version 8.0 (besides all the crashing and bugs) but I have not had any major difficulties with AC10.

I did find that my CoreDuo MacBook Pro is much faster than some fairly new HP Pentium M laptops and even seemed to outrun the Pentium D workstations in the same office. I don't know what is causing your problems but it does not sound typical from what I have seen.