WHEN IS GRID TOOL COMING???

[matthewjj]

Can anybody shed light on when the AC 11 grid tool will be available!!!

My team beta tested AC 11 and throughout the beta test the grid tool was available, albeit just as flawed as it was in 10. Then suddenly the tool was taken away from us when the final release came out. We were urged to used AC 11 on 'real' projects by graphisoft and so we did. We have real clients and we are working on a real $100m hotel and we need our grid tool back, asap.

*We have tried loading the RC1 grid tool but it doesn't get read by the final release.

[SeaGeoff]

Gabor, et al, there seems to be a bug with the 3D elevation settings. It's quite confusing and I don't have the time to suss it all out. What I observe is that the 'b" parameter in the Info Box tends to report the correct height of the grid in 3D while the Grid Element Settings parameter tends to be 2815mm too low (see screen shot). I say "tends" because there is a bunch of bizarre behavior depending on whether you change the info box field or the settings field, whether you do so in plan or 3D, whether you have groups suspended or not, whether you edit a single grid element or the entire group. Graphisoft's QA department needs to test against all these permutations.

EDIT: I just realized that my third story, where the grid system was originally placed, is 2815mm above project zero. See also how Show on Story does not agree between the settings dialog and the info box.The plot thickens...

[SeaGeoff]

I'm also experiencing quite a lot of quirky behavior in section.

1. If I set the Grid Element Settings S/E panel from General to Custom I can't get it to switch back, and the numbers don't agree between plan and section (screen shots 1-3).

2. The bottom marker offset value doesn't always work. In the screen shot it's set to -1000mm but the offset is -500mm (screen shot 4).

3. Associated dimensions other than those placed by the grid tool (such as the one in screen shot 4) are lost on rebuild. Static dimens are OK.

4. Other rebuild issues:
a) A section rebuild (or rebuild and regenerate) won't show changes to the section settings grid tool panel like Show Grid Elements or Dimension lines. You must close and reopen the section window.
b) Canceling the Grid Element Setting dialog in section cause any selected grid elements to rebuild.

Can someone please confirm these bugs.

This is a very useful tool and seems to be free of any killer bugs, but it still has a ways to go to reach an acceptable level of performance and ease of use.

[SeaGeoff]

[gkovacsp]

Geoff wrote:
See also how Show on Story does not agree between the settings dialog and the info box.The plot thickens...

Geoff, please make sure you switch off all unnecessary panels from Grid Tool info box. (Currently there was no way to remove them from the Work Environment and sometimes the pre-set visibility screws up after new and reset).

Look at the correct settings in archicadwiki.

Gabor

[gkovacsp]

Geoff wrote:
1. If I set the Grid Element Settings S/E panel from General to Custom I can't get it to switch back, and the numbers don't agree between plan and section (screen shots 1-3).

Just to make sure we are on the same page:
By default Grid Tool behaves as any other element, it has one setting for the Floor plan, and one setting for the model (section). This section setting is the General. If someone wants to change the Grid Element's appearance on one of the sections, but wants to leave all the others untouched, then he can do the following:
-open that section
-select the Grid Element
-open its settings
-change the section attributes to Custom
-adjust the parameters and push OK
From now on on that section the Grid Element will use this custom Section settings. This Custom section settings is accessible only from this section. If you open the Grid Element settings from the Floor plan, then you will see the General attributes only.

The popup seems to be left in a wrong state, I'll record this problem.

Geoff wrote:
2. The bottom marker offset value doesn't always work. In the screen shot it's set to -1000mm but the offset is -500mm (screen shot 4).

Please send me a PLN, where you have this problem.

Geoff wrote:
3. Associated dimensions other than those placed by the grid tool (such as the one in screen shot 4) are lost on rebuild. Static dimens are OK.

This is a big problem. Working on it.

Geoff wrote:
4. Other rebuild issues:
a) A section rebuild (or rebuild and regenerate) won't show changes to the section settings grid tool panel like Show Grid Elements or Dimension lines. You must close and reopen the section window.

Confirmed.

Geoff wrote:
b) Canceling the Grid Element Setting dialog in section cause any selected grid elements to rebuild.

Either my computer is way too fast or something else, but can't reproduce this.

Geoff wrote:
This is a very useful tool and seems to be free of any killer bugs, but it still has a ways to go to reach an acceptable level of performance and ease of use.

A critique wrapped in a compliment. Thanks

Gabor

[SeaGeoff]

Hi Gabor, thanks for tackling this head-on.

gkovacsp wrote:
Geoff, please make sure you switch off all unnecessary panels from Grid Tool info box.

I had noticed that the panels didn't really fit the tool. I have updated my Info Box per the wiki. This does reconcile all the differences between info box and settings dialog box, thanks.

(BTW, you better make sure the Symbol Line Type and Symbol Line Pen switches are selected before hiding those panels. And don't I want the flip and rotation panel for placing individual grid elements.)

Having the proper info box panels clears up some, but not all, of my earlier confusion surrounding the 3D elevation setting. Remaining issues:
• If you select multiple grid elements with grouping on (e.g. your entire grid system) and edit the Grid Position in 3D field the grid does not move. The field value is now wrong. Same problem plan or 3D window. Suspend groups and it works.
• Dragging grid elements up or down in 3D works fine, but the Grid Position in 3D field is not updated to reflect the move. It keeps it's previous value, which is now wrong (both info box and setting dbx, not affected by group settings).
• Try changing the story heights after the grid system has been placed. Not for the faint of heart.

gkovacsp wrote:
If someone wants to change the Grid Element's appearance on one of the sections, but wants to leave all the others untouched, then he can do the following...From now on on that section the Grid Element will use this custom Section settings.

But what if I want to revert a section from Custom to General. Can't seem to do that.

Furthermore if you stretch grid elements in section that are set to General it changes the general setting and thus affects all other sections where these grid elements are visible and throws them out of sync with those not visible from this viewpoint. We need the option to lock General to avoid accidents.

This is a big problem. Working on it.

Glad to hear it. Here are a couple more:
• Grid elements grouped in plan don't appear as grouped in section nor can they be grouped. It doesn't take and is lost on rebuild.
• If you stretch the grid element in section the info box offset fields do not immediately update. You must deselect and reselect the element to see the correct values (very un-info box like).

Either my computer is way too fast or something else, but can't reproduce this.

Lucky you Try it with three or more grid elements selected on a PowerBook G4 1GHz and I promise you a spinning beach ball. Clearly something is being calculated when it shouldn't be. Only happens in section.

[gkovacsp]

Geoff, thanks for all the feedback, I added all of them to our bug tracking system.

Gabor

[SeaGeoff]

Since this tool is in a rapid state of development (I hope) I will keep the ball rolling by suggesting some modest improvements:

1. More marker head options. They don't need to be custom, just a selection of regular polygons: round, triangle, square, hexagon, octagon.
2. Option for mask fill of marker head (all markers should include this, always).

[Laura Yanoviak]

Geoff wrote:
Since this tool is in a rapid state of development (I hope) I will keep the ball rolling by suggesting some modest improvements:

1. More marker head options. They don't need to be custom, just a selection of regular polygons: round, triangle, square, hexagon, octagon.
2. Option for mask fill of marker head (all markers should include this, always).

This is why I had created my own object (which I can no longer use).

[__archiben]

gkovacsp wrote:
Geoff, thanks for all the feedback, I added all of them to our bug tracking system.

well i thought i'd give you the benefit of the doubt and try the new improved AC11 grid tool . . .

from a fresh file, here's a few more bugs for you:

• the default 2D representation section properties are not used.

• i can't get them to 'show on all stories'. this was part of my default settings: it was ignored. selecting them and switching from 'home storey only' to 'all stories' has no effect.

• horizontal gridlines - sorting order is upside-down from what is placed on the floor plan.

• no flexibility in placing the dimensions at the top/right of the grids. or in fact on all sides of the grid.

• i have my bottom marker switched off for section/elevations. they don't get switched off. and the top/bottom offset setting dimensions are ignored.

so i'm sticking with lines. they work, they are more flexible and easier to edit. more importantly I TRUST THEM. sorry gabor, but the whole thing is great example of unfinished, inconsistent and pitiful graphisoft coding. "arse-about-face logic" is unfortunately just the beginning of it.


i tried.
ben