Why is the AC25 Kitchen cabinet tools so bad???

[In Cortasia]

Have been really excited to about getting our hands on AC25 for the new Kitchen Cabinets tools.
We use Cad Image at our work, which are extremely good, but super complex. Was excited to hear Graphisoft were upgrading and simplifying Archicad cabinet suite. 
I have using AC25 Cabinets Tools for most of the day, and what a disappoint they are. I have only place in three cabinets, one cabinet is from AC18, because I need an oven. And the other 2 are unusable, refer image, the standard of this is not up to scratch?

There is functionality issues across the typical cabinet, they basically don't function like a basic cabinet. And with the corner cabinet there is a script with the Counter, Cabinet or Carcass command.

I do not understand how for every staircase made in Archicad, there is probably ten thousand cabinets. But the stair tool functions, ten thousand times better, while the cabinet tools should be ten thousand times simpler?

[Laszlo Nagy]

If you have any suggestions you can write them down here so we can forward them as wishes to Graphisoft.

[In Cortasia]

I have identified five which could be branched to many more, from only two modules, in one image. But I will DM a list as I keep playing, it could be long!

I must admit however, it is frustrating as a designer to still be in this situation with Archicad. To see still after many years, such lacklustre desire to create working functional joinery modules persists. It is as if Graphisoft think the Interior design is done, the moment the spatial plans is drawn?
Will keep playing, cheers!

[Laszlo Nagy]

Don't DM it to me. Please, post it here so others can also see the list and possibly comment.

[In Cortasia]

Okay. 

Start with basic terminology, I know the planet uses different terms. Terms like 'side hung' are made up, please have some research done.
Secondly, I cannot see where to turn on opening line/symbol in the elevation? (Again we use Cadi-image cabinets) They are required more on the elevations than they are in plan. The plan display in for Cabinet makers, not designers, which Archicad is for.
There needs to be an overhaul of the line displays, basics plan display of old versions, full, front/back, front/back & left side and front/back & right side are gone?
And finishes, can they not be only in 'Representation', it was previously

1 (A leftover from previous).
The Front Side Connection, I have selected flush; as you can see it is not. Make it an unusable function, need to add a wall to make an end panel. A waste of time. 
2. These doors in a corner module should meet together, if you the designer wants them to. The workings of this Corner Unit needs some reviewing.
3. Just showing lines as they should appear in elevation, or in 3D if one wishes. With pivot (world) or hinge (Aus/NZ) options.
4. It is great having the Bevel/Finger-pull/Shark-Nose whatever you call it, has been 15year over due! But there should not be gap when applied. In my previous image, I display problems with door and shelf alignments. This is major problem in producing elegant tight work. If we can't show tight drawings, we are relying on Cabinet-Makers and Joiners to do it properly, and they never will, if we don't show it properly.

There is tonnes more, more as I go through, it is holidays and I am off for a few days. But honestly, I am super happy Graphisoft are finally looking at the Cabinetry. I use the Morph constantly for Interiors, but the cabinets have always been lame and terrible. I have just found it frustrating that Stair can do everything but make my lunch, but the cabinet tool, doesn't make a nice cabinet?
Cheers!!!

[Jackwr]

Yeah big big issues with this tool....

[BradJAllen19]

Very valid points you make here In Cortasia especially about the corner cabinet doors. 

We just upgraded from AC24 a few days ago and were exploring the cabinet changes which were kind of excited about because they are supposed to be a lot more customizable (which they are) but they do have some major drawbacks which make them almost unusable. 

We've been using the standard cabinets up until now and making them work since we haven't needed high quality, high accuracy pictures to show clients but simple conceptual drawings.  As long as we could get the general look of the kitchen through to the client and the dimensions of the modules were correct we were good.  However we are starting to want to show better images so again we were excited about the new customizability aspects.  The problem spots though are significant enough for us to either stay with our old library of AC24 cabinets and "keep on trucking" or consider something like the Cadimage cabinets which have more cusomizability.

One of the biggest issues is to do with the handles.  More options, which is great, but why in god's name are the locations set based on an offset from the outside of the cabinet?!  It should be an offset from the side of the cabinet door or drawer which it is closest to (typically the opening side of a door or the center of a drawer.  It was like that on the previous version so why change that?  Also if you change the size of the cabinet for any reason or change the door style the handles re-set to the default position instead of following the change made to the cabinet.  Again if it was set relative to the edge of the door/drawer that would be solved.

We don't usually use cabinets with feet as opposed to a normal enclosed toe kick so I don't care to much about this but cabinet feet also don't move with the cabinet if you change the cabinet's size.

So it seems you need to have your cabinet configuration finished and set before placing your handles/feet or you will spend as much time resetting them as you do designing the cabinet layout which seems backwards to me.

Another issue which is common to both the older version and new and is one of the primary drivers behind us looking at Cadimage, is the inability to create face framed cabinets.  They did add the ability to inset the doors which can partially simulate this look, but not accurately since the doors don't close in front of the carcass.  The cabinets we usually used are face framed with an 1 1/2" stile all around the doors of the cabinet and the stile protrudes 3/8" past the carcass of the cabinet.  Slightly less storage inside the cabinet compared to frameless but stronger and in some cases nicer to look at.  I chalk it up to face framed cabinets perhaps not being common in Europe where Graphisoft is headquartered but they are more common in North America and I'm assuming over in New Zealand as well since Cadimage has this functionality built in.  If we want to have cabinets which actually look like what we sell to our customers then using Cadimage or modeling each cabinet with slabs, columns, walls and beams seems to be the only option.

Also why has the edge visibility settings been moved to MVO?  It seems silly that you have to set simplified in MVO to make the edges of the cabinet disappear since you then also lose the sink and faucet.  Again, a feature on the old cabinets that didn't need to be changed but was, for no reason that I can determine.

Overall the new features are great but the problems I described above make the new cabinets unappealing to us.

[DGSketcher]

I finally got around to using the AC25 kitchen cabinets only to find this is yet another AC upgrade that has gone backwards. How do these changes get approved? Does anyone at GS actually have any construction experience anymore? These cabinets look more like an exercise in minimalist programming rather than having any connection with off the shelf standard units. I can't even see a way to create a basic double door unit. I should have guessed when my 13 cabinets were referencing 7 objects in the v24 Migration Library that things weren't going well. I had hoped it was just parameter conflicts, I certainly wasn't expecting a complete failure of AC25 to deliver double door & drawer line cabinets. 😠

Edit: Finally found out how to add double doors. Let’s just leave it as the object interface isn’t user friendly and the basic cabinet selection list isn’t particularly helpful. 

[Rick Thompson]

Well, this is a depressing thread to read... thanks for saving me the time (new here from AC20)... I guess I'll stick to the old version.  A vote here for GS to put some attention on finishing.