AC 17 Building Materials

[Erich]

I am just starting to create a template for the new AC 17 and am now attempting to wrap my head around the building material attribute. Does any one have a clever idea or best practice for organizing this new attribute?

While it seems to fix a number of things and is quite powerful, it also seems like it could get unwieldy quickly if not well managed.

I am hoping the community (at least the beta testers) might have some good information to be shared.

[Gerald D Lock]

laszlonagy wrote:
...I agree that there could be more work done on this.
But I also think that there will be many variations from one geographical area to the next due to materials and building technologies...

That's why I said in my post:
"...conducted a working group (perhaps one per regional release)..."

laszlonagy wrote:
I can only encourage Talkers to share their BM sets once a fairly workable solution is found.

What we really need to do is create a support forum that has a more accessible structure. A reliable place where these BM sets and other content could be shared, instead of being buried inside topic threads.

Every time I visit this site, I feel like I'm walking through maze-like corridors filled with stacks and stacks of faded old sticky-notes, most of them heavily over-pasted with layers and layers of ever-newer notes. Discussions are fine, but finding your way clearly to a trusted 'how to' article written by someone (or a small group) on best practice for that particular topic...? good luck!

Again, regional 'zones' would be encouraged as there's a healthy variety in the way buildings are documented & built the world over.
There could also be an 'international zone' where content (tips, images, settings files etc.) resides that applies to all users.

A search for "Building Materials 17" might turn up 5 active discussions, 1 Graphisoft info page with videos, and 2 best practice tips from industry-based writers, perhaps with an attached .aat file on one of them!

Ideally tips would be user-rated for their usefulness, and searches could then rank results based on these ratings, date, locality etc..

Anyway, I'm just wondering 'what will it take?' as I scribble on this shiny new yellow sticky note and carefully place on top of the last one in the thread, hoping that more than just a half dozen people read it in their wanderings & stumblings around these tired halls.....

[Laszlo Nagy]

Gerald wrote:

laszlonagy wrote:
...I agree that there could be more work done on this.
But I also think that there will be many variations from one geographical area to the next due to materials and building technologies...

That's why I said in my post:
"...conducted a working group (perhaps one per regional release)..."

Sorry, I seem to have overlooked that part.

Otherwise what you are asking for is a new forum with these new capabilities.
A much more social kind of forum. I don't know if that is going to happen, or in case it does, when. I am not aware of any such plans currently.

[Aaron Bourgoin]

Perhaps a Building Science Section of the Forum might be established. The Building Materials threads are hugely important now. But it's a bit like herding cats.

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone, rather than create another topic about Building Materials, I feel as though I should post in this one as it appears a variety of people are struggling with different aspects of the BM is AC17.

I have been testing ArchiCAD 17 (before releasing it to the rest of the office) and while testing it and all the associated new features I have struck what seems to be an unresolved problem.

I can appreciate the new building materials and how they work however I am having trouble with the usability of the building materials, surfaces and composites and how they interact to form the model.
Previously in ArchiCAD 16, I had a variety of composites which were made up of fills and then you simply changed the material to change the colour/appearnce in 3D.

In ArchiCAD 17, the surfaces are obviously integrated into the building materials. When I draw two walls and intersect them, the intersection is stepped (unlike ArchiCAD 16, where the intersection was mitred).
I am struggling with how we are supposed to change the colour/appearance of walls without creating a vast array of building materials (and consequently composites) to represent each colour of each type of surface.
Changing the colour/appearance of a wall is no longer easy.
The interesection of the walls shows one of the two walls edge surface continue through and down the wall it is intersected with.
I can obviously override the outer & edge surfaces, however this defeats the purpose of the building materials. However even if I do override the outer surface, the edge surface of the building material still carries through.
The usability of changing a walls colour, doesn't appear to have been considering in ArchiCAD 17.

Is anyone else experiencing a similar problem?
I don't see this as a bug or misunderstanding, rather a fundamental floor in the new release. I would greatly appreciate others input, and what people are doing as a work around?
I have a number of work arounds myself, however introducing AC17 into the office needs to be seemless and most work arounds are not ideal, especially in terms of maintaing office standards and uniformity.

[Anonymous]

A wall with a rendered finish (no surface override selected)

[Anonymous]

A wall with rendered finish, outer surface override selected.
BM surface carries through in 3D and also visible line in elevation.

The question is how to deal with colour/appearance change in AC17
without the need to create copious amounts of BM and Composites.
Alternatively, create a few BM (Render 1, Render 2, Render 3)
Create 3 corresponding composites (all the same except their BM surface).
Again not ideal, please tell me there is a better way!

[Barry Kelly]

Simon,
As well as over-riding the inside/outside wall surface you must also over-ride the wall end surface.
Or in the project preferences (construction elements) turn the legacy mode back on and it will be just like it was in 16 and before.

Barry.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your reply Barry. I realise I can also override the end surface and/or turn legacy mode on. However this isn't really my question. I am more wondering how we meant to work within AC17 to change wall colours.
For instance in our AC16 template we have numerous materials for paint, wood siding, blockwork or any other material where you might have more than 1 colour alternative.
So rather than change AC17 to work like AC16 did, how are the building materials, composites and surfaces intended to be used, to quickly change a walls colour (for arguments sake lets assume the wall is a rendered finish). I would need various BM's and Composites for each colour. The composite and building material settings would all be the same EXCEPT the surface for the BM.

Do people actually have a Composite (including corresponding BM) for each colour alternative of each type of BM?

Hope that makes sense? i can see what Graphisoft have tried to do, and I appreciate modeling and building the walls in the way they would be built, in addition for the eco design point of view. However when colour comes into play - Having multiple Composites seems absurd?

[Barry Kelly]

If you are looking at them in section as you show in your images then yes you will need a new composite for every time you want a new material texture/colour.

Actually you need more Building Materials and then you can just swap the BM in the composite for the one you want.
But if you have 2 walls that are the same but with a different colour of material then yes you will need 2 composites as well.

The Building Material is the new version of the surface that we had in 16.
Graphisoft should have given us an option to over-ride the Building Material rather than just the surface.
Unless they have done this and I am just missing something.

But if you are looking at a perspective view then you will only be seeing the surfaces so it is easier to over-ride the surface - exactly the same as you would have done it in 16.
You will also have to change the wall end surface again just like you would have in 16.
I agree with you that this would be so much easier if we could just swap the BM.

Barry.

[Laszlo Nagy]

For me as an architect this is definitely a bug.
It is just not how it should work.
I understand the in the model the Brick skin of the left Walls extends and cuts the Brick skin of the right Wall, but if I override the outside surface of both, I dont want to see that birck edge surface there. I want to see the Override surface set for the right Wall.
I think it is an oversight.

I will report this to Graphisoft.